TLC:

That's quite interesting.

One thing I’d like to mention is that this theoretical LSA to LSH conversion seems to work best when using iced peppermint tea rather than the other techs using ethanol and mint oil.

There are hundreds of compounds in peppermint tea. It may be more than acetaldehyde that’s doing the trick. There may be a vital catalyst present in the peppermint. No one really knows.

To date, SWIM has not been able to get pure acetaldehyde to test with. He still has quite a lot of pure LSA a friend helped him isolate from the other alkaloids in HBWR seeds. But without acetaldehyde he can’t test to see if this reaction is a reaction of just LSA and acetaldehyde like the theory suggests. Perhaps its not. Perhaps another compound in peppermint is playing a key role in this conversion.

Fact: This conversion, when it works, produces an effect that is very different from LSA. Far more like LSD, and stimulating instead of sedating.

Fact: We don’t know if LSA is actually converting to LSH. This is the only part that’s a theory. The conversion is real, but what LSA converts to is still a theory.

Fact: This conversion works with pure LSA and iced peppermint tea. But we don’t know what in the peppermint is causing the conversion. We believe it to be acetaldehyde doing this, but there is as of yet no proof of this.

I believe LSH is forming. I wish SWIM could find proof of this though. He doesn’t have the chemicals and other things needed to prove it though.

If it’s found that an alkaloid other than LSH is forming from this reaction, I would LOVE to know what that alkaloid is.

A few quick questions:

SWIM recalls some past posts in which it was suggested that using rum consistently produced the desired conversion, is this still held to be true?

SWIM has been trying to find fresh peppermint at the stores which sell fresh herbs, but mint is all that can be found. From what SWIM has read, this herb labelled as mint is most likely either peppermint or spearmint. Can SWIM simply buy the fresh herbs labelled as 'Mint' and use them to make peppermint tea, or should SWIM search for a supplier who is more specific with its labels so as not to end up with spearmint?

Thanks!

It's seems that only certain brands of rum work well. All brands vary in acetaldehyde content. You want a brand that’s consistently high in acetaldehyde or it won’t work well. Until someone finds which ones work well, it's probably safer to use peppermint tea.

SWIM does not recall the brand he used which always worked. It was a red rum. He’s since tried other rums and had lots of failures.

Mint usually means peppermint. Sometimes it means a mix of peppermint and spearmint. It’s rarely used to mean spearmint unless peppermint is added to it. Spearmint is not minty. It lacks that cooling menthol effect that peppermint has.

Smell the “mint”. If it smells like spearmint gum, it’s spearmint. If it smells a little like a candy cane or has that peppermint cooling effect, then it’s peppermint.

SWIM uses dried peppermint he gets on-line from an entheogen vendor. It’s dried, but kept well, so it’s still very minty smelling. It has a very strong minty cooling effect. That’s what you’re looking for. If the strong minty cooling effect is done, so is the acetaldehyde most likely. Dried peppermint needs to be stored in an air tight container to remain effective. Some places sell peppermint that’s been sitting in open bins, and is no longer very minty. That kind won’t work.

A friend of me is on antidepressants. He once took LSH with his daily dose of nortryptilin. He convinced me that the effects where exactly like LSD. So yesterday i took two of his nortrilen tablets and some LSH obtained from a handfull of morning glory seeds, and some passionflower.
I was stunned. In the dark and with closed eyes, the effects where EXACTLY like those of LSD. The only difference was that in the light it was a little less like LSD and it had effects on my breathing, making my breathing shallow.
I have no idea what mechanisms of this odd combo cause the effects. Nortrilen is as well anticholinergic (like datura) as a mild blocker of adrenalin re-uptake, and it does some other things as well. i believe it also has some 5ht-2 activity.

69ron,

Can SWIM use spearmint in place of peppermint?
SWIM has it growing fresh.

SWIM never tried spearmint, but heard that it works.

Is there an ingredient that can diminish the effects this stuff has on the breathing? I find this stuff virtually indistinguishable from real acid.

How much is 1 dose SWIM has done 6-8 HBWR w/o any acetaldehyde source with very little effects should he cut the dose in half as a starter point? SWIM has fresh peppermint growing does it need to be mature to have the most acetaldehyde,or could they be very young sprouts too?

Some people find 6-8 HBWR seeds a large dose, so my advice would be to at least be carefull. But if you notice very little effects at that dose then maybe you need more. (or your method of extraction failed)
you don't need different amounts, once the LSA is converted into LSH.
A comfortable dose of seeds, while they still contain LSA, would do fine. You don't need to adjust it.

It’s fantastic, until high doses are used and then that bronchoconstriction kicks in causing shortness of breath. That’s very unnerving. SWIM cannot stand it.

The best thing is to use a bronchodilator.

The safest to use in combination with LSH is probably theophylline, found in tea, but not in large enough quantities to be of use. You need theophylline tablets.

The other alternative is chocolate which contains theobromine. You need a lot of it though. You can make some chocolate milk and put about 2-3 times the recommended about of chocolate in it and it should effectively counteract most of the vasoconstriction and bronchoconstriction of LSH. It doesn’t work as well as theophylline does. The good thing about theobromine is that it’s not much of a stimulant so it won’t affect the stimulant effects of LSH much..

Caffeine is also a bronchodilator, but also a strong stimulant. It will alter the trip, making it much nicer at low doses, but at high doses of LSH, it’s not a nice combination, leading to extreme nervousness, excitability, pacing, etc. No fun.

Another option, although more dangerous, is to use mormon tea, or ma huang. Be VERY CAREFUL with ma huang. Ma huang contains ephedrine which is a strong bronchodilator. Unfortunately ephedrine has killed people. SWIM has not used this in combination with a high dose of LSH. He doesn’t feel it’s safe.

SWIM finds strong chocolate milk is a good choice. You can drink a few cups throughout the trip to ward off the vasoconstriction and bronchoconstriction effect of LSH and not worry about getting an overdose. People don’t die from drinking too much chocolate milk, but they do die from too much ma huang.



Yeah, the dosage for LSH is about the same as for LSA.

I want to add that SWIM has recently been boosting his LSH doses with 3 Datura stramonium seeds. This increases the visuals, increases the euphoria, and increases the potency a little. SWIM has since not felt any shortness of breath from the LSH and hasn’t needed a glass of strong chocolate milk since using the combo. He was wondering why.

Now I just discovered that hyoscyamine (the main alkaloid of Datura stramonium seeds) is in fact a bronchodilator, and is also very effective for treating asthma. That explains why SWIM isn’t getting shortness of breath issues with LSH anymore because the 3 Datura stramonium seeds have been counteracting this unpleasant side effect of LSH.

So we should add Datura stramonium seeds to the list of effective bronchodilators. (Only use about 3 seeds, never more than 10 in a day.)

any idea if this works for morning glories? when seeds are ready SWIM might do some experiments for analytical purposes.

It's supposed to work with all the popular LSA containing seeds, but SWIM only uses HBWR.

ron how many seeds do you usually use for a moderate to high dose? Swim has only used MG and Riveas, so was just wondering. Has 10 sitting around and wondering if that will be a decent dose.

edit - well erowid states 7-12 is a strong dose.

SWIM has som raw cacao powder sitting around. Any idea what a good dose for vasodilation would be? (for use in combination with datura stramonium)

Also, whats and "oxime"?
Found that they sell Acetaldehyde oxime, >99.5%, 500ml on ebay (only within the US though and quite expensive). Would this work for the LSH synthesis?

oh and one more thing. Is there a lot of crappy HBWR seeds out there or are they quite consistent in their alkaloid content?
I powdered 7 seeds and put them under my tongue for 30-40 minutes with only minor effects. Was it because of bad seeds, method of use or may it be that I'm just tolerant?
=)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxime


So, acetaldehyde oxime is completely different than acetaldehyde. Acetaldehyde is ch3-ch=o and acetaldehyde oxime is ch3-ch=n-oh. So it wouldn't work.

SWIM picked up an ounce of dry peppermint at the local herb shop, it had a very strong smell. He used a few spoonfuls of the peppermint and steeped it in hot water for 10-15 minutes, and then moved this to the fridge. The next morning, swim grinded 15 HBWR seeds into 3 separate cups, and then poured the tea in equal amounts into each cup. These cups were set in the fridge for 11 hours, and then filtered and drank by SWIM and two of his friends. One thing he noticed was a clear jelly-like substance that formed around the seed mush.
Anyhow, the experience was certainly not lsd-like, not mdma-like, and not really much of anything. SWIM was very relaxed, a nice body buzz, did not experience the negative effects he normally experiences when doing a cold-water extraction of HBWR, but did not experience anything resembling the effects of lsd. It was definitely not very stimulating, but certainly less sedating than the time he has done a plain CWE.
Should SWIM try again, but this time purchase fresh peppermint and dry it immediately before using?
SWIM figured that since the peppermint had such a strong smell, was labelled as organic, and was stored in an artight jar at the store, he had what he needed. Any tips on how SWIM should go about his next attempt?

Find some fresh peppermint and dry it yourself and use it straightaway. Thats the best way to guarantee freshness. I used mint from my garden and it seemed to work.. wanna try again soon tho!
Also as has been observed, sometimes the reaction does not work for some unknown reason.

narmz you might have to up the dose a little. 5 seeds per person is on the low side. From swims few travels with LSA, its a subtle kind of thing. Not crazy psychedelic but the feeling is there, almost like the come up on LSD. Also try a few datura seeds to combat the nausea, swim had very little nausea when used.