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If you're having trouble getting crystals from acrb, use this tek (thick-light) Options
 
RustySpoon
#21 Posted : 12/1/2012 5:14:12 AM

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thanks for the response, i did end up getting a small amount of goo from evaporating all the way. tried re-xing and still is a goo, which im not too disappointed with, ill just have to whipe it up with some herbs, or make some changa.

there are a few things that i think may have effected my results but not sure.

i blended the bark into a powder, idk if this has any effect but was more of a pain to work with for sure. did not freeze before cooking which may be not releasing as many alks.

the heat of the crock-pot was a bit high, especially for such a small cook, it ended up evaporating most of the water out each time. this would most likely raise the ph of the mix and absorb more fats and oils in with the alks.

ill be narrowing down what exactly happened by cutting some of these factors out. the next batch i have in a mason jar, that i placed in the crock-pot filled with water to reduce heat, reduce loss of water from the heat, and make it easier to pour off the water. also using vinegar instead of ph down.

 

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thick-light
#22 Posted : 12/1/2012 11:50:58 AM

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No vodka powder or vinegar when i was freezing it. I actually soaked it in water then poured it off in the pot I was using for the boils then froze and thawed it 2x before cooking.
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thick-light
#23 Posted : 12/1/2012 1:16:12 PM

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The xtals that fall out at room temp are dmt with some nmt. I think that saturated solvent will drop the dmt crystals until it can hold the remaining dmt in it.

So after pouring off freeze it and you should get alot more xtals.

This was my experience. This is a first freeeze on my second set of pulls.
thick-light attached the following image(s):
ztal jar.JPG (268kb) downloaded 2,063 time(s).
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thick-light
#24 Posted : 12/1/2012 1:22:35 PM

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decant your solvent off the soup asap and don,t let the solvent sit on the soup over night sit or this can happen. If it does heat the soup solvent with a space heater then shake it up let it separate amd pull while it's warm and clear. It got milky white after I decanted it and crystals are falling out of it as I type this.
thick-light attached the following image(s):
top view of needles.JPG (307kb) downloaded 2,070 time(s).
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RustySpoon
#25 Posted : 12/1/2012 3:43:37 PM

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how did you heat the acid bath? on a gas/electric stove, double boil?

even in a crock-pot on low most of the water was evapd. doing 60g batches so i use 250ml of water which seems to be a good amount and is the same ratio you used 4ml water/g of bark but i was ending up with about 50ml of water after 1.5 hrs of cooking.

double boiling inside of a crock-pot seems like its going to turn out better, not losing as much water, and also reducing the first 2 cooks at the same time.


i have the next batch freezing, with the powder it takes a little more than 1ml of water/g of bark to fully saturate for anyone else that wants to freeze their powder first. it took about 70ml-80ml of water for 60g of bark, and i used the vinegar water to freeze.

also keeping your ratio of water/vinegar, 2000ml water/100ml vinegar is about right on the money @ ph 4.0

ill try another few small pulls from the previous batch, since i only did 3, and try not washing with sodium carb, and let it sit at room temp for a few hrs first. ill for sure pour the solvent off this time, NOT break them loose and NOT use a paper filter.

hopefully we can figure out why many others are getting goo Very happy

i tried a 3rd re-x got all the goo in a shot glass of heptane, stirred well and lots of fats/oils didnt dissolve this time, poured off the heptane and left the fats and oils, looks promising Surprised ill post back with results
 
alicedee25
#26 Posted : 12/1/2012 5:02:44 PM

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I've gotten crystal and goo from my confusa vodka soak a/b.
here's somethings i've noticed that are unique to confusa
The goo's more than dmt, and more than likely higher in nmt. it is a red-brown color. It falls out at room temperature, and in solvent looks milky white. When re-x, the goo doesn't dissolve well (although i'm sure its not leftover basic material), at room temp, or near boiling, but it will soften into a taffy. The pulls from the re-x dry clear, and when scrapped are a lighter peachy brown goo. the re-x is usually only ~5% of the originals weight.
interesting interesting.. im taking a lot of notes and pictures, they're comingSmile
 
thick-light
#27 Posted : 12/1/2012 5:08:51 PM

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My final yield was 5.987 grams plus I have 600ml of milky white naptha that i'm letting evap a bit to see if anything will drop out, and a mason jar full of beige past covered in needle like crystals. With these last 2 items I'm guessing I'll get 2 more grams or so. The soup with the needles on top was redisolved then decanted and is in the 600ml of naptha so I know there's at least a gram in their plus it was mixed with some already saturated naptha 200ml or so that dropped around 300mg. Plus I'm going to do another pull to see if I can get any more out of it and will post the final results when the 600ml is freeze precipitated, the beige paste with crystals growing out of it is collected, and my final pull is processed.

I used an electric stove and didn't powder my bark due to the pains of filtering all the sediment as your doing consecutive boils. I also noticed that the 3rd and 4th set of pulls started yielding a beige paste with crystals sticking out of it. The first pulls as you can see from my pics were fluffly and pure white. I'm not sure what is happening with that, but I puffed a small amount of it (it had some xtals stuck in it) and brokethrough so it's active and probably good for some changa.

Hope you get it figured out, and please post yield results and process changes etc...

People may be getting goo due to the vendor they got their bark off. Some vendors don't care about quality and will just pass off what they can, as "it's not for human consumption"
or "only a botanical sample".
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RustySpoon
#28 Posted : 12/1/2012 5:51:54 PM

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That is an amazing yield... im jealous Razz

this is what i ended up with after 3rd re-x, the white crystals hold their shape but still dried out to be gooey which is hard to weigh, but they are very dense chunks. the peach-ish colored goo wont stay solid at all unless frozen, but melts very quickly. ill call it a loss for solid crystals but will make some changa.




next batch will be identical to yours, in a smaller portion, except using powder and not freezing first.

after that, ill have a batch that has been frozen and thawed a few times.

maybe all we need is a defat step if using powder? is that possible? it also could simply be the quality from the vendors
 
thick-light
#29 Posted : 12/1/2012 7:29:00 PM

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I also got a gooey beige/peachish pasty/waxy substance. I'm still waiting to see if it is ever going to dry. Anyway I was expecting 7-9 grams, but almost 7 is good enough for me.
What did you do that was different from the tek I posted?

Use 500 grams of acrb, Add 400ml of naptha to your acrb boils right after you base them.The heat from the lye reaction should allow the naptha to become super saturaated so as it cools the crystals will fall out. Shake over a sink and let the solution seperate at least six times. then pull while it's still hot then stick it somewhere and forget about it for 8 hours, then check on it. This 1st pull should be so saturated that the dmt crystals should fall out of the solvent and you will be left with a big pile of xtals and then you can freeze precipitate it to get the rest.

Good Luck and be careful when shaking the solution while the lye reaction is still piping hot.
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RustySpoon
#30 Posted : 12/1/2012 7:53:39 PM

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i used ph down instead of vinegar, still right at ph 4.0, used powdered bark, didnt freeze first, and used a crock-pot and most of the water was evaporating. also did a sodium carb wash.

this is what i did.
used 60g of powdered bark, 250ml water cooked for 2hrs each time, filtered very well, ended up with 500ml water total from 3 cooks. used 60grams of lye, few pulls with naptha(40ml), sodium carb wash, and froze right away.

lost most of it when i broke the crystals from the sides and filtered into coffee filter, it melted into the filter and couldnt get it back out.

i have the next batch filtering, used vinegar instead this time, ended up with about 750ml of water from 4 cooks(1000ml total used) this time, which is the same % that you reduced to. considering doing a defat step before adding lye, but also want to move 1 step at a time to doing exactly what you did to see where this is going wrong.
 
thick-light
#31 Posted : 12/1/2012 8:48:18 PM

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all the crystals that dropped out never melted, nor did the remaining xtals from the freeze, My second to last pulls left me with more beige/peach colored paste. the 600ml was evapped down to 400 and I put it in the freezer a half hour ago.

So total fluffly white xtals =s about 6 grams

The beige paste has just started to dry out completely. it's very dense and the one chunk I weighed came out at 250mg, but there is smears of paste all over the baking dish, and the bottom of two jars that makes it very hard to retrieve. once scraped and DRY I think it will only weigh 300mg or less. The paste was scraped up but remained a very waxy consistency and weighed in at 398mg

And I won't know what comes out of the 400ml in the freezer for a few days.

so the total weight is 6.385

or 1.277% of the alks


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thick-light
#32 Posted : 12/2/2012 8:29:39 AM

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I got lazy and only left my solvent in the freezer for 12 hours.
It turned yellow pretty fast and has a pasty/waxy consistency with beige tones running through it. If I had to guess I'd say it's a mix of dmt and nmt and will make a nice batch o changa. I also think that my bark isn't a confusa root bark, it's most likely stem bark.
I can't rationalize, due to the amount of dmt pulled and the very low amount of nmt pulled, that its root bark, that's if the 50:50 ratio of acrb is a hard fact, or it could be rootbark that was somehow harvested at the right time in climate conditions that may have effected the alkaloid profile??????
thick-light attached the following image(s):
last freeze for tonight.JPG (238kb) downloaded 1,999 time(s).
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Dr John
#33 Posted : 12/2/2012 6:47:36 PM

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I have 500 g of confirmed acacia rootbark boiling right now. crossing my fingers for good results.
 
RustySpoon
#34 Posted : 12/2/2012 8:30:12 PM

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im finishing up the second batch now. the naptha was super milky and had a few xtals drop out at room temp, looked pretty gooey, now im evap'ing all of it to see what comes out. i followed it exactly the same as thick-light, except i added 2 defats, im using powdered bark, and also didnt freeze the bark first. looks like im going to end up with the same results as my first attempt, gooey. ill post back with results soon.

then ill be starting the next batch which has been frozen and thawed several times, if all comes out gooey, its either the quality from the vendor, or the fact im using powdered bark.

has anyone else had good results from this tek yet? please post results and changes in method Smile

 
shanedudddy2
#35 Posted : 12/2/2012 9:22:55 PM

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I also got goo from my previous attempts.
The process was pretty darn similar to the Original Posting, except with less boils and pulls (3 boils, 3 pulls).
This resulted in yellowish liquid which would cloud white when blown upon.
First time I simply evaporated, this resulted in an orange/amber goo.
This was still highly active, but I was a bit sad I didn't see crystals.
The next time I did similar, and when evaporate down, I threw it in the freezer.
After about 5 hours, I tried to filter out the DMT that had precipitated, but they simply dissolved.
I haven't had any success with Freeze-precipitation as of yet, the small crystals seems to get stuck on the filter paper, then just dissolve :/
Next time I am going to try a defat process on a larger amount, as well as keeping it in the freezer for 24 hours.
Hoping to have better luck.
It may be worth everyone saying what type of bark they have used, to see if there is a common theme.
Mine was pre-powdered trunk bark.
 
Satori1111
#36 Posted : 12/2/2012 11:07:13 PM

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Fantastic Thread! Excellent research, well written and informed. All hyper spacial beings thank you! Namaste
"Before you can know anything directly, non-verbally, you must know the knower. So far, you took the mind for the knower, but it is not so. The mind clogs you up with images and ideas, which leave scars in memory. You take remembering to be knowledge. True knowledge is ever fresh, new, unexpected. It wells up from within. When you know what you are, you also are what you know. Between knowing and being there is no gap." "I Am That" - by Nisargadatta Maharaj

All my posts are hypothetical and for educational/entertainment purposes, and are not an endorsement of said activities. SWIM (a fictional character based on other people) either obtained a license for said activity, did said activity where it is legal to do so, or as in most cases the activity is completely fictional.
 
The Meddling Monk
#37 Posted : 12/2/2012 11:44:37 PM

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Most suppliers want the trees still alive next year, so they only take root bark from fallen trees.
Stem/trunk is the most common part available, and rightly so. And based on what's known about other Acacias, the branch bark is just as good as rootbark.
One chinese medicine store says: (Acacia confusa)
Quote:
Product Information

Phyllodes ("Leaves" ): Phyllodes are taken from large mature trees. The phyllodes are not new growth, often at least a year old, therefor is larger and tougher.

Stem bark (Standard): Raw bark that is cut dried and bagged. Bark for sale is only taken from the main stem (trunk) of mature trees.

Stem bark (Premium): Bark is cut and scraped of the outer most layer. This leaves little to no dead bark structure left, only the nice red stuff! Bark for sale is only taken from the main stem (trunk) of mature trees.

Inner Stem bark (Highest Quality): Long strands are pulled away from inside the bark. Only the inner bark is included, no outer bark and no wood. Bark for sale is only taken from the main stem (trunk) of mature trees.

Root bark: Root bark is harvested in the same manner as the stem bark; from naturally fallen trees. Please note that the trees are all recently fallen. We don't harvest from trees that have been dieing for a while, we go collecting right after a typhoon or heavy rain
 
RustySpoon
#38 Posted : 12/3/2012 2:19:52 AM

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well it is just as i expected, all clear goo and a few waxy xtals on the dish. not sure where on the tree it came from,but it says it was ethically taken from old mature trees in small amounts instead of stripping the whole tree, so probably a combination of all over the tree. i was also using powdered bark, no good results yet.

just my opinion, dont make large batch until you try a small one out first, to save from a headache, if your looking for fluffy xtals. ill continue on with my pre frozen bark and follow the same process.

defatting didnt help anything, exactly the same results, good for changa though =]
 
Dr John
#39 Posted : 12/3/2012 2:27:02 PM

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followed tek closely. got a sticky off white goo at bottom of small test pull, i think my bigger pulls will follow same suit. i waited 6 hours, seen a few crystals floating, nothing else appeared, so i just stuck in freezer. my small test dish has crystals which i fear will melt into goo once dish is dry, bottom of dish is covered with waxy substance.

goo has a sweet dmt smell to it, i suppose i can make changa if it never crystalize, but i wanted crystals.

EDIT.

I Got Spice. Very white crystal clear spice. it seems as if the crystals i thought as goo, did hold structure. super small amount, but it's from a small test batch. the rest is in the freezer as of now. I' will proceed to do more pulls.

http://postimage.org/image/u59blmedb/
http://postimage.org/image/9go5tp42h/
http://postimage.org/image/pfiaeal3p/
 
thick-light
#40 Posted : 12/3/2012 9:39:05 PM

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The bark I used is going to be sent off for a complete alkaloid profile so I'll post that info when it comes.

I also think that using a large amount of bark might be the way to go.
Boil 500 grams and there's going to be alot of dmt in your boils after there based and the naptha is added it's kind of naturally selective or predisposed, so i've heard, to become saturated with dmt before nmt. This might be the reason My first pulls were almost all dmt and towards the end it got more and more pasty/waxy/oily.

There are just so many factors to consider that it's overwhelming.

But if it's true that naptha prefers dmt to nmt then the above theory might hold some crystals.
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