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Making Homeopathic remedies from psychedelics to help mental disorders Options
 
Jorkest
#61 Posted : 5/20/2009 9:24:51 PM

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ok
it's a sound
 

STS is a community for people interested in growing, preserving and researching botanical species, particularly those with remarkable therapeutic and/or psychoactive properties.
 
jamie
#62 Posted : 5/20/2009 10:01:00 PM

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I dont really see the point in the arguement..we dont know everything, and maybe something has changed in the water..it is the most receptive molecule..and if you concider the theory of morphic resonace its not that unbelievable..

What about geometric shapes and forms? surely they seem to impart some distinct set of info/equation. There can be many many many many diff geometric shapes taken on by snowflakes..all of the same water molecules will crystalise into different patterns..why?

Perhaps there is some sort of interaction with dark matter going on, on an energetic level which imparts certain properties to the water, only registerable by the ablitilty to observe that dark matter..prob not but the point is we dont know what the hell is really goin on here so to say anything is impossible is stupid and arrogant in my opinion.
 
Jorkest
#63 Posted : 5/20/2009 10:09:10 PM

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thank you fractal...i dont know how homeopathics work..but in my experience they have and continue to work..

and the argument that water comes in contact with every substance and that water should be a cure all based on that..well..if you stop drinking water...you will die...and whats the one thing that you SHOULD do when you are sick..you should drink water..to keep you hydrated and who knows what else it could POSSIBLY do for you..

i hate arguing about homeopathics...because neither side can win..because scientifically we dont know everything..i just know that they have worked for me, my family and my friends...so thats what i go by..not some argument saying that its impossible..
it's a sound
 
SWIMfriend
#64 Posted : 5/20/2009 10:29:09 PM

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fractal enchantment wrote:
I dont really see the point in the arguement..we dont know everything, and maybe something has changed in the water..it is the most receptive molecule..and if you concider the theory of morphic resonace its not that unbelievable..

What about geometric shapes and forms? surely they seem to impart some distinct set of info/equation. There can be many many many many diff geometric shapes taken on by snowflakes..all of the same water molecules will crystalise into different patterns..why?

Perhaps there is some sort of interaction with dark matter going on, on an energetic level which imparts certain properties to the water, only registerable by the ablitilty to observe that dark matter..prob not but the point is we dont know what the hell is really goin on here so to say anything is impossible is stupid and arrogant in my opinion.


Is that a joke post?

Sure, there are unknown things. Sure, things that might seem strange or improbable can sometimes turn out to be true. But what's ALSO TRUE IS: there's an AWFUL LOT of bullshit in the world. I think it was Carl Sagan who first said: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." Homeopathy has NO objective evidence to support it, as demonstrated by controlled studies. Homeopathic medicine lacks ANY sensible rationale to support it. Homeopathic medicines are.....just water.
 
jamie
#65 Posted : 5/20/2009 10:32:52 PM

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I though that scientists had tested water blessed by monks and they found the "holy" water to be more uniform and geometric in the arrangemnt of molecules than plain tap water etc..what the bleep comes to mind but I know that movie is apparently not that accurate..
 
jamie
#66 Posted : 5/20/2009 10:35:09 PM

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SWIMfriend wrote:
fractal enchantment wrote:
I dont really see the point in the arguement..we dont know everything, and maybe something has changed in the water..it is the most receptive molecule..and if you concider the theory of morphic resonace its not that unbelievable..

What about geometric shapes and forms? surely they seem to impart some distinct set of info/equation. There can be many many many many diff geometric shapes taken on by snowflakes..all of the same water molecules will crystalise into different patterns..why?

Perhaps there is some sort of interaction with dark matter going on, on an energetic level which imparts certain properties to the water, only registerable by the ablitilty to observe that dark matter..prob not but the point is we dont know what the hell is really goin on here so to say anything is impossible is stupid and arrogant in my opinion.


Is that a joke post?

Sure, there are unknown things. Sure, things that might seem strange or improbable can sometimes turn out to be true. But what's ALSO TRUE IS: there's an AWFUL LOT of bullshit in the world. I think it was Carl Sagan who first said: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." Homeopathy has NO objective evidence to support it, as demonstrated by controlled studies. Homeopathic medicine lacks ANY sensible rationale to support it. Homeopathic medicines are.....just water.



Is that a joke post man? I mean, I could say the same thing to you. You want to be an asshole and pick apart my post to prove a point that you dont really have than go ahead.

..I bet you dont even know the theory of morphic resonance and imprints...go do some research before you post dude.
 
Jorkest
#67 Posted : 5/20/2009 10:41:34 PM

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'just water'

i find it amazing that all life is supported by water
it's a sound
 
SWIMfriend
#68 Posted : 5/20/2009 10:44:04 PM

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fractal enchantment wrote:
I though that scientists had tested water blessed by monks and they found the "holy" water to be more uniform and geometric in the arrangemnt of molecules than plain tap water etc..what the bleep comes to mind but I know that movie is apparently not that accurate..


Again, I can only assume you're joking.

Here's the wikipedia article on homeopathy. I looked it up because I was curious when homeopathy was first invented: I thought it was the late 19th century, turns out it was the late 18th century--1796. What's important about that time is that homeopathy was probabaly JUST AS GOOD as "scientific" medicine, since biological science was still in the dark ages then; heck CELL THEORY wasn't really strongly stated until 1858 and the GERM THEORY didn't have solid proof until 1875.

Homeopathy had a good hundred years to get a following before science could really even begin to be APPLIED to medicine in any sort of effective way. NOW, people pick up homeopathic medicines and don't really CONSIDER what it is they're using--typically they think they're using herbal medicine.
 
SWIMfriend
#69 Posted : 5/20/2009 10:46:44 PM

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Jorkest wrote:
'just water'

i find it amazing that all life is supported by water


That's right. So it doesn't need a practice of medicine named for it. Water is not a "cure" for illness, it's an absolute requirement for life. Pretty amazing that people are selling it as a specific "cure."
 
Jorkest
#70 Posted : 5/20/2009 10:50:17 PM

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then if its not good..why is it still around?? and also..there are hundreds of homeopathic remedies..to pick up a homeopathic remedy and think that its an herbal remedy means you have absolutely no idea what you are doing..

figuring out which homeopathic remedy is the right one is not easy..there are many many symptoms that you need to understand before you can accurately choose a remedy..you cant pick up just some random remedy and have it work..and most of the time..the same remedy will work differently depending on the person...because you choose a remedy based on WHO the person is...how they are feeling emotionally and physically...and most of the time...its their emotions that you choose the remedy by..not the physical symptoms..
it's a sound
 
Jorkest
#71 Posted : 5/20/2009 10:52:02 PM

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but i know there is absolutely no chance that anything i post here will open your mind to the possibilities of homeopathy..so im not going to take anymore time trying to explain any of it to you...


gotta love close minded people...
it's a sound
 
SWIMfriend
#72 Posted : 5/20/2009 11:14:00 PM

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Jorkest wrote:
....gotta love close minded people...


Do you mean to suggest that someone who rejects an extraordinary claim unsupported by evidence is close-minded, but someone who rejects a reasonable, rational, well-documented claim** is open minded?

Have you considered that some people are very open-minded to magical thinking and close-minded to rational thinking? Generally, that mix is seen most often in young children.

**such as my claims: 1) that there are MANY wrong assertions made all the time, so it's necessary for a prudent person to discriminate claims--or else believe that any and all claims are true all the time, 2) that no verifiable evidence exists for the medical effectiveness of homeopathy, 3) that the theoretical basis of homeopathy was created before anything substantial was even known about biology or chemistry; and now that theoretical basis is the epitomy of silliness.
 
SWIMfriend
#73 Posted : 5/20/2009 11:18:53 PM

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Jorkest wrote:
...then if its not good..why is it still around?? ...


Astrology is still around. Do you believe--as you might read in a newspaper astrology column--that everyone born in a certain month will have a "lucky day for romance" today, for example?

Better yet, the idea that animals were created 6000 years ago has been around LONGER than homeopathy; and the idea that animals evolved from earlier, different species by a process of natural selection has been around about as long as homeopathy. Do you believe BOTH of those ideas--since they're both "still around" as long as homeopathy?
 
jamie
#74 Posted : 5/21/2009 4:38:18 AM

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...thats right, humans know everything, they have written that book already and I forgot...you read it. you took that class that none of us even knew existed and seem to be the "know it all"..dont worry, I wont argue with you again..
 
SWIMfriend
#75 Posted : 5/21/2009 5:29:27 AM

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fractal enchantment wrote:
...thats right, humans know everything, they have written that book already and I forgot...you read it. you took that class that none of us even knew existed and seem to be the "know it all"..dont worry, I wont argue with you again..


So...you make a statement, and that's ok. I make one, and I'm a know-it-all and closed-minded?

No matter WHAT you say, in one way or another, you're claiming one thing is true and another thing is false (OK, maybe you're an exception--maybe you just say everything is true--so why do you have a problem with what I say?).

An example: The government--and government supported scientists--have said psychedelic drugs have no value, are dangerous, and police should do everything they can to stop their use. Did you believe that? Why not? I assume you THOUGHT FOR YOURSELF and came to a conclusion.

Well, in the same way, I did exactly the same thing: I thought for myself, came to a conclusion...and THEN stated the exact reasons and analysis that led to my conclusion. SO, IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE CONCLUSION THEN THE OTHER PERSON IS A KNOW-IT-ALL?? Kind of whiney, isn't it?

Some things are true and some are false. We make decisions about that every second of our lives (like deciding whether it's safe to cross the street). Is it necessary for you to pretend you don't need to make such decisions? If you think it is, you're deluding yourself.
 
jamie
#76 Posted : 5/21/2009 5:48:05 AM

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[quote=SWIMfriendNo matter WHAT you say, in one way or another, you're claiming one thing is true and another thing is false (OK, maybe you're an exception--maybe you just say everything is true--so why do you have a problem with what I say?).[/quote]

And from where did you make that clever distinction?...I never said anything was true or not...I said WE DONT KNOW... I never said everything is ture either. Just that I dont know. All the rest you must have imagined because I cant for the life of me figure out where you got that from.
 
deedle-doo
#77 Posted : 5/21/2009 5:51:41 AM

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So what if the mechanism behind successful use of homeopathic is the placebo effect? Does this make them less useful?

Seems to me a few people are able to tap into the healing power of the mind using simple rituals like homeopathics and energy transference etc. Why are the practitioners of such healing practices so opposed to trying to understand the underlying mechanism at play?
 
jamie
#78 Posted : 5/21/2009 5:53:13 AM

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prob not but the point is we dont know what the hell is really goin on here so to say anything is impossible is stupid and arrogant in my opinion...

that was what I said..directly from my post...
I soppose you want to argue over the validity of dark matter becasue its "impossible" and couldnt have any implications on the physical as well...what's the point of arguing a point against something when you're only point is its unproven?? Lots of things that happen were once unproven..YOU are the one comming one here seemingly acting like you have the upper hand on knowledge here or something, YOU are the one really casting judgement on its validity or not..I really dont care becasue I fankly dont fucking know.
 
SWIMfriend
#79 Posted : 5/21/2009 6:01:04 AM

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fractal enchantment wrote:
[quote=SWIMfriendNo matter WHAT you say, in one way or another, you're claiming one thing is true and another thing is false (OK, maybe you're an exception--maybe you just say everything is true--so why do you have a problem with what I say?).


And from where did you make that clever distinction?...I never said anything was true or not...I said WE DONT KNOW... I never said everything is ture either. Just that I dont know. All the rest you must have imagined because I cant for the life of me figure out where you got that from.
[/quote]

Right....except....you were also insistent (by implication) that since YOU don't know, then NOBODY can know. Furthermore, saying "you don't know" is only "innocent" when you're completely disconnected from the situation. Saying you don't know is simply a statement of ignorance. Should the ignorant be "protesting" as you are? If you don't know, maybe you should open your mind to arguments from those who claim they to. Why am I the bad guy? Jorkest is ALSO claiming to KNOW. Since you say you DON'T know, why are you more or less supporting him and calling me a know-it-all?

Could it be because he offers NO evidence, logic, or analysis...and that kind of "no knowing" position is friendlier to someone who "doesn't know?"

To claim that distilled water, containing a low concentration of a common substance, and then diluted to the point where, statistically, it's almost certain to contain NOTHING again but the water...to claim that is likely to be medicine is, on it's face, RIDICULOUS. OK, it's ridiculous, but does it WORK! All objective assessments say it DOESN'T work. So, we have something ridiculous, for fun we test it and find out it, of course, doesn't indeed work....

....So....how is stating the obvious regarding that being a "know-it all" or some variant of that?

Does the world for you contain only "know-it-alls" and regular people? No "deluded" people?
 
jamie
#80 Posted : 5/21/2009 6:03:49 AM

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deedle-doo wrote:
So what if the mechanism behind successful use of homeopathic is the placebo effect? Does this make them less useful?

Seems to me a few people are able to tap into the healing power of the mind using simple rituals like homeopathics and energy transference etc. Why are the practitioners of such healing practices so opposed to trying to understand the underlying mechanism at play?


yeah i agree that placebo effects are useful..sort of like a form of metaprogramming. But I wouldnt dicount the possability of an energetic or morphic imprint/signiture being left behind in the water. Why is this so hard for people to comprehend? We should be able to go out on limbs and entertain different theories..just look at the history of physicis, its a cobweb of at-the-time, poorly percieved theories..but without those accused "nutcases" and they're theories, where would we be?

What about all the people who claim to see ghosts?? I am talking about classic hauntings, with repeated reports from random witnesses of the same phenomenon...Morphic imprinting would be a perfectly POSSIBLE, SCIENTIFIC explaination for the phenomenon...doesn't mean it IS the explaination...but it COULD explain alot of so-called "impossible" phenomenon.
 
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