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entheogenic effects of NMT (monomethyl-tryptamine) Options
 
polytrip
#61 Posted : 12/8/2011 2:31:03 PM
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I find that ayahuasca with acacia confusa, wich is supposedly very high in NMT, is a lot more like vaporised DMT than brews with mimosa or psychotria.

It was tropicals tripreport that got me interested in formosahuasca in the first place, so maybe that influenced my experiences with the stuff. But for what it´s worth, i find formosahuasca to be much wilder stuff than aya made with chacruna or jurema. Fast, raging, sharp...rather subjective, i agree. But tropical used simmilar words when he described his experiences with it.

So maybe those words influenced me, or maybe NMT, realy makes oral DMT more like vaporised spice, when combined with it.
 

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nen888
#62 Posted : 12/12/2011 4:09:00 AM
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..thanks for the input polytrip, i think the differing effects you mention are not placebo, and there is some kind of synergy..
i think plants containing NMT (or multi-tryptamines in general) are potentially more 'advanced' teachers..there are simply more modes of action,
more 'directions' to go..A. confusa's reported oral activity could be due to flavonoids, and these can add to the depth of an orally ingested brew
..numerous acacias are flavonoid rich, and the leaves of A. confusa are known to contain some..

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


..here is a rough summary of the main data in the talk "entheogenic effects of NMT from acacia" given at the EGA conference, Australia, 4th December 2011,
i have yet to get time to actually 'pen' any kind of 'formal' paper: (i'd prefer more independent tests and 'peer' review if i did)

Background to the Research

In 1992, following a meeting with Acacia maidenii extract pioneer 'JG', a tree was misidentified by the author as Acacia maidenii, and branch bark successfully extracted to produce an extract with strong DMT-like effects. In 1994 the area was revisited by the author and Mulga and the tree was subsequently identified as Acacia obtusifolia, although later botanical work showed that the actual original single tree extracted appears to be a natural hybrid of the two species which both occur at the location.
Around this time, the author was given access to pure synthetic DMT, and was surprised to find the subjective effects were not as strong, 'deep' or 'physically involving' as the A. obtusifolia extracts. Believing other alkaloids to be responsible the author urged Mulga not to release the species name until more research had been done, however Mulga decided to post the information on the internet. This led to a sudden interest in the species which resulted in serious damage being done to the tree in national parks and other wild locations, threatening it's reproductive ability.
Whilst trying to bring about conservation awareness regarding A. obtusifolia, quiet research continued. In 1997 phyllodes and twigs of material judged 'good and strong' by the author was sent (via 'R' ) to Daniel Siebert, who determined the alkaloids consisted of approximately 2/3 NMT (N-Methyltrypamine, 'mono-methyltryptamine' or MMT)), 1/3 DMT and 2% ß-carboline (which was not identified) at 0.3% of dry weight. If NMT was 'inactive', as described in most literature, the strength of the extracts could not be explained by the amount of DMT or ß-carboline present, unless the ß-carboline was of unprecedented potency. A second test from around 50 plants (to get an average) was conducted privately by Southern Cross University in 2000, and the result was again 2/3 NMT, 1/3 DMT and trace ß-carboline, which was tentatively identified as 1,2,3,4-tetrahydro-beta-carboline, but no reference was available, and perhaps leptocladine (2,3,4,9-Tetrahydro-1,2-dimethyl-1H-pyrido[3,4-b]indole) . The uncommon sub-tropical variety of A. obtusifolia was tested a year or so later by Mulga, and found to contain mainly DMT, with a little NMT, and a ß-carboline believed to be leptocladine.
It was decided to perform paper chromatography to separate the alkaloids from each other (see Experimental) and in 2001 a series of bio-assay experiments with NMT were conducted by 3 experienced subjects. Despite the frequent statement in literature that NMT was inactive, there was no actual data to corroborate this. It was known to be inactive orally, but so is DMT without an MAOI. There were no IV or vaporised reports. N-Methyltrypamine (NMT) was tested in 2001 by vaporisation and oral ingestion with harmalas as MAOIs.

Results of Bioassay

The entheogenic effects of NMT could be described as 'spatial sense' orientated, as well as 'memory/thought locational'. Visual effects (mainly closed eyed) occurred on larger vaporized doses (90-120mg) or when taken orally with MAOIs, and seemed directly synaesthetically related to the predominant spatial and memory/thought aspects. Larger vaporized doses also produced a 30-45 second peak of vary rapid visual phenomena beginning at 2-5 minutes, described by one subject as 'more far-out than DMT', though not overwhelming in strength. Auditory perception was greatly enhanced, without pitch or distortion effects. Music was described as sounding 'amazing' whilst apparently unchanged. There were predominantly enhanced cognitive and 'emphathogenic' effects until baseline. All subjects reported a feeling of enhanced 'clarity' afterwards, and said that they would try it again. Lower doses were found to be an effective meditation tool by some, with no visual activity. It was noticed that retention of spatial memory in darkness navigation tests seemed improved, though it was not possible to conduct formal experiments at the time.
Here are some notes taken by a subject following 90mg NMT by vapour: (see Experimental Reports for more)

"...immediate recceding from ordinary 4D space
very 'tryptamine' vibe, but ...nothing much..almost inactive, then

2-3 minutes, very rapid 'direct addressing of the organism'
descending 'semi-entity' visuals for about 45 seconds
feeling increasingly 'high' for want of a better word

sound sensitivity..relates to spatial detection
how do you feel space? what is it?
you feel it because it is continuous with yourself

where mind becomes space

ever slightly increasingly stimulating at 15-45mins

rhythmic or cyclic compression/dilation of space = alternate form of 4D geometry

light becomes brighter then halo like, as if slowed down = the space of light within light

...not so much a visual or auditory entheogen, although there were some visuals, but rather a 'Spatial hallucinogen'...imagine you could 'feel' but not see an Escher world..."

.........................

Known Biochemical Activity

NMT is found as a natural trace component of human urine, along with DMT, 5HT (serotonin), bufotenine and 5methoxy-tryptamine.
Therefore, as is said of DMT, it plays an as yet unknown role in ordinary and essential perceptual, cognitive and conscious function.
It was a potent agonist of 5-Hydroxytryptamine (Serotonin) Receptor Subtype 1A (5HT1A).[2] It showed weak binding affinity to the (5HT2B) receptor, for which more visually orientated hallucinogens such as LSD and psilocybin have greater affinity. DMT differs from these two classic psychedelics in having a much greater binding affinity to the 5HT-7 receptor, for which I'm not sure if NMT has been tested. As I'll mention in a moment, though, all these compounds bind to multiple receptor sites.
NMT is also a strong inhibitor of the enzymes Aldehyde Dehydrogenase 1 (ALDH1A1) and Histone Lysine Methyltransferase G9a,
A recent Journal of Medical Chemistry (2010) paper found that Protein lysine methyltransferase G9a inhibitors inhibit cancer cell growth.[3]

Going back to 5HT-1 agonists, such as NMT, interestingly psilocin (but not psilocybin or LSD), ergotamine and yohimbine also show strong affinity here.5-HT1A receptor agonists decrease blood pressure and heart rate via a central mechanism, by inducing peripheral vasodilation, and by stimulating the vagus nerve.These effects are the result of activation of 5-HT1A receptors within the rostral ventrolateral medulla.[4]
"Effects of 5-HT1A activation include decreased aggression or increased serenic behavior,increased sociability,decreased impulsivity, inhibition of addictive behavior,facilitation of sexual behavior and arousal,inhibition of penile erection,decreased food intake or anorexia,prolongation of REM sleep latency, and enhanced breathing or hyperventilation and reversal of opioid-induced respiratory depression."

When taken orally with MAOIs NMT showed some somatic effects, occasional muscle tremoring (not unpleasant).
The general feeling of 'clarity' most subjects felt afterwards (even following smaller doses) suggested various possible theraeputic actions.It is in a list of compounds which 'prove' a patent application for methods of therapeutic treatment of chronic back pain.

Endogenous Tryptamines also play a range of physiological actions. DMT for instance induces smooth-muscle tremor, amongst other things. Smooth-muscles tremor usually occurs during sleep and helps digestion. A molecule like DMT binds to many different receptor points, it's function cannot be simplified to dreams or death or a concept like that. Whatever it, and NMT, do, it is a vital part of our normal daily functioning..

Chemistry

The form of the freebase when crystalized: mp90*Manske 1931 reports stellar aggregates of needles with some individual crystals having a rectangular form. Prior to reading that perfect description I termed the crystal pattern 'curved diamonds' radiating outwards from a point. It can be initially a clear or white oil crystalizing slowly, becoming yellow/orange crystals, rapidly darkening with exposure to air. Sometimes, due to other trace compounds, it remains an oil. In the freebase form it is more polar than DMT, meaning it has greater water solubility, though it is not soluble in cold H20.
There is no NMT-N-oxide. N-Oxides can only be formed from tertiary amines, and NMT is a secondary amine. There may be N-hydroxy-N-methyltryptamine, but I have no information regarding it's formation. I have been told: "In the case of NMT, oxidation and cyclization would give 1,2,3,4-tetrahydro-beta-carboline." This ß-carboline is found in other plants including Phalaris arundinacea.
The ß-carboline fraction of A. obtusifolia showed mild activity at 10mg vaporised, but not enough to create MAO inhibition. The author only know 5-6 people having tried NMT on it's own...more data is vitally needed.[5]

Synergy and DMT

I found this lone comment on a 2006 net forum discussion:
Quote:
"I think *NMT's effects work best when combined with DMT. Try extracting a plant that has high levels of both, I've tried one and it was pretty intense, more so than normal DMT xtal. Have not tried it alone so cannot comment." [http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=283967]
I would agree entirely that an NMT/DMT combination is more 'forceful' in some way, or at least 'different'/'expanded', changing with the relative ratio of compounds. Could it have somehow not been NMT that was tested? It was suggested by somebody the that the NMT was demethylising into Tryptamine through pyrolisis, and that tryptamine was described as "a very fast acting psychedelic when injected at relatively large doses", but the MAOI tests suggest this is not the case.
So, a little NMT may go a long way toward expanding the 'vocabulary' of the tryptamine experience. It may be a subtler compund than dimethyltryptamine, but it's unknown full potential in neurophysiological, medical and consciousness research remains tantalizing and mysterious...

Experimental and Experimental Reports
[To be completed] Much of the information is in the dmt-nexus thread "entheogenic effects of NMT".

References:
1. Stafford, P. "Psychedelics Encyclopedia" 1986; Ott, J. "Pharmacopeia"; Foye, W.O., Lemke, T.L., Williams, D.A. "Foye's principles of medicinal chemistry"
2. "Primary HTS assay for 5-Hydroxytryptamine (Serotonin) Receptor Subtype 1a (5HT1a) agonists."
The Scripps Research Institute Molecular Screening Center
3. Liu F, Chen X, Allali-Hassani A, Quinn AM, Wigle TJ, Wasney GA, Dong A, Senisterra G, Chau I, Siarheyeva A, Norris JL, Kireev DB, Jadhav A, Herold JM, Janzen WP, Arrowsmith CH, Frye SV, Brown PJ, Simeonov A, Vedadi M, Jin J.
"Protein lysine methyltransferase G9a inhibitors: design, synthesis, and structure activity
4. Dabiré H. (1991). "Central 5-hydroxytryptamine (5-HT) receptors in blood pressure regulation". Therapie. 46 (6): 421–9. PMID 1819150.relationships of 2,4-diamino-7-aminoalkoxy-quinazolines." J Med Chem. 2010 Aug 12;53(15):5844-57.
5. see "entheogenic effects of NMT" and related threads, DMT-nexus.me

.
 
nen888
#63 Posted : 1/11/2012 6:18:35 AM
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..one of my main points (to this forum) about NMT is that, personally, i would prefer to experience DMT in combination with it..a more encompassing experience..
and on it's own it is deeply healing..

at this stage Acacia confusa would be one of the most accessible consistent sources of NMT with DMT (about 50/50)
..A. obtusifolia (the inspiration of the 2001 experiments) can vary seasonally and geographically..sometimes no NMT, sometimes other alkaloids..

i would really like to see some follow-up experiments on this natural tryptamine..these few bioassays with the pure compound are not enough for statistically significant interpretation..

..in future tests i would like to figure out what the darkening reaction product is (not an oxide) ..2MeTHBC..? HMT?

last point for now..i have chosen to adopt 'NMT' to logically stand for 'N-Methyl-Tryptamine'..a few writers use 'MMT' ('mono-methy-tryptamine) but this is less common..the possible confusion with 'NMT' is that it is sometimes used to refer to 'N-methyl-transferate', the enzyme involved in internally synthesizing tryptamines in the body, however others and myself adopt 'INMT' to refer to the enzyme..

..Snu Voogelbreinder has very graciously offered to help me write up a formal publication on NMT..don't know when this will happen but
thanks Snu..Smile
.
 
nen888
#64 Posted : 2/6/2012 8:40:11 AM
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..after talking to one of the the chemists who helped with the 2001 experiments, i can clarify/correct that the betacarboline thought to be either 2MeTHBC or 1,2,3,4-tetrahydro-betacarboline, chromatographed after the DMT, which was after the NMT..the distance was very small under the solvent system..but, in one chromtograph there was a narrow band in between the NMT and DMT which fluoresced slightly under UV..i have no idea what this could be..some kind of tryptamine?
..what i would like to do is attempt to replicate the chromatographic system, and this time photograph it..finding a similar ratio of alkaloids in A. obtusifolia may be seasonal..re-chromatographing the NMT under this solvent-system is the main thing i would like to achieve..
.
 
nen888
#65 Posted : 2/10/2012 3:54:53 AM
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..i funnily enough only just noticed this publication:

"N-Methyltryptamine" by Lambert M. Surhone, Miriam T. Timpledon, Susan F. Marseken
VDM Verlag Dr. Mueller e.K., 13/07/2010 - 84 pages
Quote:
Please note that the content of this book primarily consists of articles available from Wikipedia or other free sources online. N-Methyltryptamine NMT, or merely methyltryptamine, is a putative psychoactive drug of the tryptamine chemical class which may purportedly have psychedelic properties. It is an alkaloid that has been found in the bark, shoots and leaves of several species of Virola, Acacia and Mimosa plants, among others, many of which also contain the related compounds N,N-dimethyltryptamine DMT and 5-methoxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine 5-MeO-DMT. It is also synthetized in the body by humans as a metabolic endproduct of the amino acid L-tryptophan see External links for more information.

..given their research methodology in particular, i don't think it's going to tell me anything i didn't already know, but interesting..."putative entheogen" eh..? shame for them they didn't publish after this thread appeared..

ISBN 6130998104, 9786130998103 available http://www.betterworldbooks.com...amine-id-6130998104.aspx for $49!
 
fidget
#66 Posted : 3/14/2012 10:51:15 PM
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endlessness wrote:
Acacia confusa rootbark or?

I ask because i got a sample of acacia that im gonna do a TLC test in the next couple of weeks, but its not the rootbark. Im wondering if someone could send me a sample of the rootbark I could test it to compare with mh uk's earlier stuff.


H ad some of the early stuff. bought around the end of 2010.....

It has been left untouched in the fridge.....waiting for the right moment.

Is it worth grinding up trying a Vinegar boil, Lye soak, Xylene pull on it?

CAnt find any good teks to follow Smile
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nen888
#67 Posted : 3/15/2012 7:31:03 AM
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..hi fidget, nmt (along with dmt and ß-carboline) can be easily extracted using ethanol/methanol and/or a vingear boil..lye at pH 11-13..xylene/dichloromethane/hexane pull..
..in Acacia confusa DMT and NMT seem to be present in roughly equal amounts..the bark should be fine after a few years if it hasn't moulded..
.
 
fidget
#68 Posted : 3/15/2012 8:46:42 PM
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Thanks..I will have a go at extracting as many different alkaloids as I can (im not bothered about pure DMT or pure NMT etc...

But my question was more if anyone knows how good that early MHUK bark was, the first lots that came in when the mimosa drought of late 2010 early 2011 was on going?

Smile

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nen888
#69 Posted : 5/25/2012 11:20:56 AM
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..so, NMT was found in reasonable amounts,in the 60s, in Hammada leptoclada (Amaranthaceae), a succulent herb found in Turkmenistan..this is whare the ß-carboline Leptocladine was first isolated and named from [Grazkuliev, I. K. et al. 1964]..

..my question now is, with so much Acacia confusa apparently around, and with another finding of it's NMT (with DMT) content by endlessness, this would be an easily accessible source for somebody out there to attempt replicate (or otherwise) these 2001 NMT findings..i am still puzzled by what the darkening color of the NMT may have been, and whether or not a beta-carboline was therefore increasingly present with time..

as said earlier in thread, i have trouble understanding why there are so few reports of bioassays of NMT..it could be that large amounts of NMT are not so common, even in plants this has been reported..for instance, Lui et al. 1977 found 2.85% alkaloid (55%NMT/45%DMT) in A. confusa, but some Nexus extraction reports indicate a much smaller ratio of NMT, at least with whatever extraction method is being used..
similarly, samples of the acacia of this study collected at a different date were tested by endlessness, and found to have little or no NMT..M. hostilis did have traces, interestingly..
so, NMT is possibly, like 5meoDMT, rarer in nature than DMT..

..i above all encourage it's further research as a possible therapeutic aid, both psychological and physical..
.

here is a link to the brief 1st NMT experience description thread..

.
 
jamie
#70 Posted : 5/25/2012 5:57:04 PM

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nen..do you know if 5meoNMT is endogenous? I cant seem to find much info on it's occurance in the body..
 
evil804
#71 Posted : 5/25/2012 8:18:13 PM

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does MHRB contain notable levels of NMT? i had a particularly crazy 20 min flash of hyperspace that was more intense than even a vape session of DMT. it was with a cold water extract on MHRB. the descriptions of acacia confusa/formosahuasca sound a lot like this particular experience, about 30 min after drinking nausea came like a brick through the window. I had a massive purge, and within seconds it hit hard and fast, everything i saw turned into strands of multi colored DNA double helix strands, pulsating with light. i could hardly make it 10 yards to the bed it was so intense. CEV were writhing strands of light that were so intense my vision was enveloped when i blinked. 20 minutes of this, and i was back at baseline thinking "WHAT THE FUCK JUST HAPPENED?" for reference, ive gone through 2 kilos worth of MHRb and never once had anything that felt like this, and it was the first time i did a cold water extract with distilled water.

for reference, it was 300mg of rue alks from a batch ive used before, and a sip of a third or so of a cwe extract of 15g of addenium MHRB that had been used from the same kilo over the last year never having done anything like that to me before, harmalas and MHRB spaced 15 minutes apart.

 
endlessness
#72 Posted : 5/25/2012 10:21:18 PM

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Doesnt seem to.. Seems NMT amount is generally very small in mimosa.

But drinking cold water extraction, you have yuremamine which might have particular effects on its own (it breaks down in extraction conditions or just heat from brew)
 
nen888
#73 Posted : 10/27/2012 2:10:50 AM
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..hey, i hope this thread saves the legitimate researcher some funds..

the current price of NMT from legitimate scientific suppliers - $520 per gram! [http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/cat...12?lang=en&region=AU]

..now, anyone have any ideas about it's actual legal status around the world?
.
 
nen888
#74 Posted : 11/25/2012 1:55:04 AM
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..in light of the increasing numbers of new nexus members, i am bumping this thread..
anyone working with Acacia confusa should have an understanding of NMT..

in particular, i encourage those interested to read this post#63 above..

..i am presently discussing the publication of an N-methyltryptamine formal paper or book with S. Voogelbreinder, who has offered to help with his vast expertise..
 
nen888
#75 Posted : 2/12/2013 4:42:13 AM
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..as there are a lot of queries regarding NMT as a 'goo' in A. confusa extractions, i feel i need to clarify the issue..
the 'goo' is a mixture..

now, while NMT is much harder to get to crystalize than DMT, it does form crystals (star-pattern needles, and the occasional larger prism) , it usually takes a lot longer to solidify than DMT..(i.e up to a week)

..the 'goo' is a mixture..what makes it not solidify quickly seems to be traces of other compounds, e.g. ß-carbolines or obscure tryptamines..it may be the additional time required for these compounds to differentiate themselves which slows the process down..
but, if purified, NMT does form crystals..
.
ps. synergistic interaction with DMT is discussed briefly in this thread..
 
nen888
#76 Posted : 4/11/2013 1:32:05 PM
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..never mentioned that AFAIK, the first synthesis of NMT was by Alexander Shulgin..(kudos) as reported in TIKHAL..
also should mention NMT is synonymous with Dipterine..
NMT is still a strangely un-researched compound, from a number of points of view..

& a reminder, from what the limited research presented in this thread indicates, effects of just NMT on its own would only become apparent to most people beginning at 60-90mg (by vapour)

.
 
nen888
#77 Posted : 7/11/2014 1:49:16 PM
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..with recent developments on the Nexus in which NMT from Acacia confusa is separated from DMT
[Dr. Sister
& arcologist ]

..i would like to re-state/clarify a few points..

firstly, that as discussed earlier there appears to be some kind of synergistic effect of DMT and NMT..as stated earlier, onset is slowed, and duration extended, as well as extended subjective effects..

secondly..as noted in the thread's reports, pure NMT crystalizes as either larger 'stellar aggregates' (Manske) or smaller circular needle formations (Fitzgerald & Sioumis)

and lastly, on the effects..
whilst at moderate doses the effects are meditational or potentially therapeutic (cognitively and perhaps physically) , at large doses (100mg and above) there are visuals..whilst they are of very short duration (30-40 seconds) they can be notable..i said in my summarised talk above that the visions of NMT can be weirder than those of DMT..though slightly more internal than DMT..following this flash there is some visual enhancement, as described earlier..
but the main entheogenic sensory orientation NMT is not visual..it is space/mind..mindsapce..
'spirit' is not necessarily something you see..

and of course there are possible physiological benefits as limited medical research has shown..

it is a tool of which we don't quite know it's full application..

 
endlessness
#78 Posted : 7/11/2014 8:11:53 PM

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Thank you again nen not only for your excellent groundbreaking research on all these compounds and plants, but also for taking the time to share your knowledge with us, constantly summing up information gathered, updating the threads, etc Smile

One small detail regarding NMT crystallization, I´ve seen pure NMT (synthetic) crystallized as thin ´fly wing´ kind of shape, I might have posted a picture at some point.

Also one kinda mysterious aspect about NMT is the fact it does NOT form oxides, but I think people have mentioned some color change happening with pure NMT too, IIRC? Something worthy of more investigation if so..
 
Chimp Z
#79 Posted : 7/11/2014 11:52:55 PM

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A friend has smoked 250mg of yellow nmt crystals and felt dreamy and like they "were under the ocean" with minor visuals.

I would assume if there was any dmt in the extract it would be minimal.
A quarter gram of smoked tryptamines is quite a bit.
Hope that helps.
Nen you have helped me understand my Acacia extracts more.
 
SnozzleBerry
#80 Posted : 7/12/2014 3:18:49 PM

omnia sunt communia!

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endlessness wrote:
Also one kinda mysterious aspect about NMT is the fact it does NOT form oxides, but I think people have mentioned some color change happening with pure NMT too, IIRC? Something worthy of more investigation if so..

Iirc, it's been suggested that oxidation (or some other reaction) causes it to convert to some type of beta-carboline (2-mthbc?)...I would imagine similarly "superficially" as n-oxide oxidation for DMT. I can't for the life of me remember where I came across the hypothesis...(I think it may have come up earlier in the Acacia research?), but if I do, I'll post it.
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