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Trying to improve Acacia information Options
 
nen888
#21 Posted : 7/13/2011 11:58:10 AM
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..hi, there are probably 6 or 7 waiting to be unvieled in SE-Q, an area not so well known as NSW,Vic.,SA

remember extracts from acacias can be highly variable and have more going on in there, so for mainly DMT, with what's currently known,
you'd be best to purchase seed of A. acuminata.

A. floribunda, A. maidenii are native to SE-Qld, but not hugely common. A. longifolia & obtusifolia (native to further south) should be about...(the latter
not common).

study the extraction teks carefully, and get to know the plant...Smile

ps A. blakei native to your area, just no first hand experience (& again not super common)...
 

STS is a community for people interested in growing, preserving and researching botanical species, particularly those with remarkable therapeutic and/or psychoactive properties.
 
nen888
#22 Posted : 7/13/2011 1:59:56 PM
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Smile ..no worries!

..if u wanna get deeper into ausTrytamine acaias see (from cpl wks ago) DMT in Aus!???

amazing how fast the topic posts move on round here!...
 
nen888
#23 Posted : 7/13/2011 2:22:28 PM
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..quick message to pass between friend researhers:
"Cheerio to "JG" 92original "maideniiman" from "E" the "obtuse"..thanks for starting the revolution.!"

& just want to remind people that, as pointed out earlier, subsequent Acacias were discovered after the
accidental mis-identification of A. maidenii, turning out to be a different species.
there's an awful lot out there, so keep the info. flowing...Cool
 
nen888
#24 Posted : 7/16/2011 2:51:04 PM
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...welcome,

just to keep all the info in one thread,

Acacia obtusifolia alkaloids
variable results, suggesting subtypes or other factors..
To date the following alkaloids (not neccesarily at the same time) have been found: NMT, DMT, 5meoDMT, leptocladine, harman, gramine, bufotenine, tryptamine, (+), also Cyanogens. Oils are reported, more on this another time. Also Teracacidin[](flavan-3,4-diol) in wood.
attempts to correlate all the data are happening now..here...

 
hebrew
#25 Posted : 7/16/2011 8:12:34 PM
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nen888 wrote:
..keeping the info. flowing,

i can confirm from observing several bio-assays, and reports by another researcher, the succesful tryptamine activity of
Acacia oxycedrus (Vic.,NSW,SA) (2 varieties + x-breeds with longifolia & mucronata)
was hoping to have a HPLC or GCMS before announcing, but there are delays. Good yields, effects good but composition unknown.
There may be a bit of variation, but the sampled plants are 'good'. Good enough that, despite no GCMS, i'm prepared to put
it on the list..

another researcher has vouched for Acacia blakei (SE Qld,NSW,possibly Vic.) (not real common, needs propogation).i don't have details.

i know of one Australian bi-pinnate species (fern-leaf kind) that appears to contain tryptamines, but work is in progress...

(ps A. mucronata photos now a few posts back..)



is this phyllode or bark? age of material estimation? any further info?

thanks for the info
 
cytokinesis420
#26 Posted : 7/17/2011 12:06:05 AM

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I've been doing a lot of work lately with Acacia confusa with great results, I found Acacia farnesiana growing in my area i plan on trying an extraction on it soon. Information says it has n,n-dmt, 5-meo-dmt and tetrahydroharmine..
 
nen888
#27 Posted : 7/17/2011 2:08:48 AM
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..look forward to hearing of your results cytokinesis420.

..hi hebrew see oxycedrus post, but i might add that pruning a single large branch would be the most
ecofriendly way of taking material from a tree in the wild. i would expect the various forms of this plant to show
alkaloidal variability like A. obtusifolia & longifolia. pyllodes are, in most species, a good source.
i really feel the difference between root/trunk/stembark has been overemphasized (in most cases)...
 
nen888
#28 Posted : 7/17/2011 7:50:20 AM
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..more info.!

Acacia colei (native to drier regions W.A.,N.T.,western QLD, planted extensively in Africa)
There are now several net reports now of up to 1.8% alkaloids(DMT) in the bark. (Wikipedia, Australian Ethnobotany forum etc)
Earliest reference i know of was Dr Karl Kruszelnicki talking on A.B.C. radio c.2005 (will try to get recording)...

Like A. victoriae this is an edible seed species (wattle seed very high in protein)...
 
lessless
#29 Posted : 7/17/2011 5:02:30 PM

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Is information about amount of alkaloids in stem & bark of acacia confusa at wiki reliable?
I talk to seller and he said, that it's ok to use stem bark


Quote:
>> > No, most Acacia confusa used is stem bark from the main stem. Premium
>> > is
>> > stem bark with the outer surface scraped.


Quote:
>> Sorry, shouldn't it be root bark for ayahuasca preparing?
>> Here https://wiki.dmt-nexus.m...cacia_confusa#Root_bark is says than, root bark contains 1.14% DMT, and there is only
>> 0.01% of it in stem bark.



Quote:
> No, that is Mimosa hostilis. Acacia stem bark is very strong. This is
> mostly what is used for extracts or ayahuasca. Root bark harvesting is
> also very damaging to the tree and surrounding environment.
>
>
> Take care!
> kada
>
>









 
hebrew
#30 Posted : 7/17/2011 8:41:04 PM
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i have a colei a young one growing in the opposite side of the country but i will get a photo for you here, i am pretty sure its colei, it was gifted to me and i was told it is similar to confusa. however i should have written down the name when the plant was gifted, but i am pretty sure its colei
 
bfly
#31 Posted : 7/20/2011 9:25:58 AM
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Thanks mate that defiantly looks like it!
 
nen888
#32 Posted : 7/21/2011 5:56:29 AM
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..yes lessless, stem bark is often fine but it varies. many cases as good as trunk, look for A. confusa extraction threads in the nexus..(different opinions)
Acacia confusa is native to S.E Asia, so somewhere there a culture of knowledge would exist..
harvesting root bark kills acacias, but not mimosas..some aussie acacias tolterate snow so you could grow in Ukrania..Cool

..hey hebrew, here's A. colei..
nen888 attached the following image(s):
PSB_Acacia_Acolei_v1-1.jpg (42kb) downloaded 1,371 time(s).
colei.JPG (42kb) downloaded 1,374 time(s).
 
hebrew
#33 Posted : 7/21/2011 7:27:59 AM
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nice mine is still a seedling

needs to be put in the ground or into a larger pot
 
nen888
#34 Posted : 7/21/2011 8:27:24 AM
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..hi, wanted to bring some ancient middle-eastern acacias to your attention, & see if anyone has reports..

Acacia albida (synon. Faidherbia albida)


Acacia albida. (Ana Tree or Winter Thorn.) It is found throughout the middle-east & africa. see info further on in thread.. It is known to contain DMT (see Tikhal). ..the 'burning bush'..is believed to be A. tortillis subsp radianna]
(..i have been told a small spiritual group now exists in Israel based around the entheogenic effects of this tree...)
it has numerous traditional medicinal uses including digestion and child-birthing...

..according to the old testament Moses was instructed (on Mt. Sinai) to build the Arc of the Covenant out of holy 'shittim'-wood..
Acacia seyal, the Red acacia, known also as the shittah tree (the source of shittim wood). A. seyal has been found to
contain DMT in the leaf & stembark according to unreferenced web sources)
nen888 attached the following image(s):
250px-Faidherbia_albida_branch.png (88kb) downloaded 1,361 time(s).
Acacia_albida1.jpg (72kb) downloaded 1,359 time(s).
1483.jpg (65kb) downloaded 1,361 time(s).
220px-Acacia_seyal_Bild0830.jpg (13kb) downloaded 1,350 time(s).
 
PrimalWisdom
#35 Posted : 7/21/2011 10:38:09 AM

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Cool topic!
Theres so many Acacia and other plants around that I'm sure many of them have large quantities of Alks waiting to be extracted.

I've started doing test extractions on the various Acacias we get here in South Africa.

So far not much has come out of it. I did get a small quantity (50mg's or so) of white crystals that smelled like DMT out of around 100grams of bark from Acacia Cyclops. I still have to try the leaves and root bark, but it seems promising.

I am going to try Acaca Karoo next, Theres talk that it is psychoactive (wikipedia and a few other sources) but it seems no one has done the groundwork with it. I know Phlux did some work with it, but I have not been able to find any outcome of his tests.

I am also keen to test the various Delosperma spp's that are reported to have alk's in them, but they seem to be more hassle tan they are worth.

I have a small Acacia Siberiana growing as well. I have tracked down a large tree and apparently the leaves have high concentrations of DMT in them (various internet sources) so I will be attempting an A/B on 100 grams of the leaf

On that subject, is it best to do an extraction on dry or fresh leaves? I did a test on 500 grams of fresh A. Obtusifolia leaf and got what seemed like 30mgs of whiteish/yellow oils that smelled strongly of DMT. I know it was oily coz I sort of slacked off during the de-fatting (dear lord it takes alot of xylene to de-fat leaves!) I just want to know if the DMT concentrates when you dry the leaves or not, or if its sort of dependant on the plant species/type.

I'm quite careful with what I ingest/smoke these days so I won't be test piloting anything until I get it analysed. I'm currently sucking up to a 3rd year Organic chem student with a taste for the psys and hopefully he can assist with accurate identification of Alkaloids, but I dunno how hard it is to do this.

anyway I'll be posting any results I get from any plants I test.

Stay magical y'all!
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birthing golden vibrations,
that echo through folds of space & time,
ferry my soul closer to God

 
nen888
#36 Posted : 7/21/2011 10:54:01 AM
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..Smile great to hear from you PrimalWisdom,
..good to hear there's some able field researchers on the ground in South Africa..looking forward to hearing some new findings!
Quote:
I just want to know if the DMT concentrates when you dry the leaves or not, or if its sort of dependant on the plant species/type.

..with regards to various australian spp., i would say the most likely factors determining alkaloid content/levels would be:

Chemotype (or chemical sub-species..wild acacias morf a lot in form & are often genetically polyploid (alowing fast adaptation to surrounding conditions..)/
Seasonal..temperature & moisture levels can cause differences both in amount & kinds of alkaloids../
& Soil Conditions..higher levels of available nitrogen (thru rhyzobial bacteria) will probably boost levels of alkaloids..

..the overall content should not vary between fresh & dried material..

sounds like there's a lot of african acacia species to play with...!

 
PrimalWisdom
#37 Posted : 7/21/2011 12:39:47 PM

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nen888 wrote:
..Smile great to hear from you PrimalWisdom,
..good to hear there's some able field researchers on the ground in South Africa..looking forward to hearing some new findings!
Quote:
I just want to know if the DMT concentrates when you dry the leaves or not, or if its sort of dependant on the plant species/type.

..with regards to various australian spp., i would say the most likely factors determining alkaloid content/levels would be:

Chemotype (or chemical sub-species..wild acacias morf a lot in form & are often genetically polyploid (alowing fast adaptation to surrounding conditions..)/
Seasonal..temperature & moisture levels can cause differences both in amount & kinds of alkaloids../
& Soil Conditions..higher levels of available nitrogen (thru rhyzombial bacteria) will probably boost levels of alkaloids..

..the overall content should not vary between fresh & dried material..

sounds like there's a lot of african acacia species to play with...!




Yeh man There are so many plants down here in S.A. that need work done on them.

I really wish I had access to some chem analysis equipment so I could see what I was getting. but hopefully my new chem student pal can sort me out. The thought of having access to a University lab makes me quite giddy with excitement XD
Sonorous fractal manifestastions,
birthing golden vibrations,
that echo through folds of space & time,
ferry my soul closer to God

 
nen888
#38 Posted : 7/22/2011 5:58:28 AM
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..yeah, i'll try and compile a list of probable african spp., any suggestions? (must be something like a dozen or more)
when you say PrimalWisdom
Quote:
I really wish I had access to some chem analysis equipment so I could see what I was getting. but hopefully my new chem student pal can sort me out.
There are some ways of getting a rough idea without a lab. a friend of mine is an expert at making up re-agents to determine the
presence of alkaloids (i will try to convince him to join & write a tek in nexus if there isn't already one..)
An example of a re-agent suitable for determining tryptamines (there are many) would be Dragendorf's reagent,
a solution of potassium bismuth iodide. It is used to determine the presence of alkaloids. http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_d...;s_reagent#ixzz1So1hMhC4

..you only need a gram or so of fresh plant material..mix it in solvent solution(to suit particular reagent).
..a known reference plant like P. viridis (mainly DMT)will give a particular colour change (like salmon-pink).
..the closer the colour spot of your test plant to the reference will show you if there are tryptamines present.
..different colours (say yellow/green) indicate other kinds of alkaloids (like phenethylamines).
..this isn't exact & doesn't give you quantity, but at least you know that you're in the ballpark...

Example..back in 2000-1 this friend (M) & i collected 30 random different acacia phyllode samples...All except one were alkaloid positive, and 10 of those showed
a tryptamine colour change (4 almost identical to the reference, P. viridis)

also you wrote earlier
Quote:
I did get a small quantity (50mg's or so) of white crystals that smelled like DMT out of around 100grams of bark from Acacia Cyclops.

..that does sound promising...Smile
 
PrimalWisdom
#39 Posted : 7/22/2011 4:00:50 PM

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Hey nen888

That sounds like an awesome idea. I'm meeting with my chem buddy tomorrow to trip the light fantastic so to speak, and will run this by him. Sure he can help me do it a few times until I'm confident doing it on my own.

The Acacia Cyclops is indeed promising seen as theres hectares of it growing along the coast down south in Cape Town. in fact I got my sample bark from acroos the road Smile

I'm going to go check with the municipal guys clearing a large section of it away if I can grab some roots and then test Tek that. I'm going to start a tek on some leaves on Sunday so will have results on that by Tuesday.
Sonorous fractal manifestastions,
birthing golden vibrations,
that echo through folds of space & time,
ferry my soul closer to God

 
nen888
#40 Posted : 7/22/2011 5:25:22 PM
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Quote:
Acacia Cyclops is indeed promising seen as theres hectares of it growing along the coast down south in Cape Town

..groovy PrimalWisdomSmile ,

here is a list of African & middle-eastern Tryptamine Acacias (which will hopefully grow over the next few years..)

A. albida (Ana Tree, Winter Thorn) DMT leaf, bark [2][1]; DMT-like bioassays in Israel [dmt-nexus]
A. giraffae (synon.A. haematoxylon x erioloba) DMT in leaf [5]
A. horrida (Cape Gum, 'Dev-Babul' ) [4]
A. karoo (Sweet Thorn) tryptamines [4]
A. laeta DMT, in the leaf[6]
A. mellifera DMT, in the leaf[4][1]; alkaloid +ve 2 tests [14]; triterpinoids.
A. nilotica (Gum Arabic Tree) DMT, in the leaf[2][4][1] tentative DMT,5meoDMT[10], tryptamine and 'harmane derivatives'[11]
A. nilotica subsp. adstringens reported DMT [4][12]
A. nubica DMT in leaf [9]; synon. with A. oerfota (A. nubica subsp oerfota) - NMT [4]
A. polyacantha DMT in leaf [4][8][9]
A. senegal DMT in bark & leaf [9][2][1][6], NMT, other tryptamines [4] DMT in plant[7]
A. seyal (Red Acacia, holy 'shittim wood' ) DMT [2][1]
A. sieberiana DMT, in the leaf.[6] Ether extracts about 1-7% of the dried leaf mass.[3]
A. tortilis (Umbrella Thorn, also implicated in the Ark of the Covenant) DMT leaf, bark [2]; alkaloid positive [13]
A. xanthophloea ('Fever Tree' ) oral ceremonial & medicinal use (incl. anti-malarial); alkaloids [15]


so that's 14 so far..References:
[1]wiki.magiskamolekyler.org (Swedish)
[2]TIKHAL, Shulgin & Shulgin
[3]Wattle Seed Workshop Proceedings 12 March 2002, Canberra March 2003 RIRDC Publication No 03/024, RIRDC Project No WS012-06
[4]Pharmacuetical Excipients.com =Posted by Niazi in acacia blog
[5] (internal uni. chemistry paper viewed by Nen 1995)
[6]Shaman Australis (either claimed in a thread, or referenced to here elsewhere)
[7] Dr. Duke's Phytochemical and Ethnobotanical Databases
[8] Poland herbarium
[9] Khalil & Elkheir 1975.
[10] Heffter 1996, Trout 1997
[11] Oliver-Bever "Medicinal Plants In Tropical West Africa 1986
[12] Trout 2004
[13] Kubmarawa et al 2007
[14] Lalitha et al. 2010; Rukunga et al 2004.
[15] Nundkumar et al. 2002

..Interestingly, Acacia cyclops is native to Western Australia! Many Australian acacias were planted all over africa (for tannin & timber) and are now naturalized...
 
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