SWIM has encountered a weird dilemma. Few weeks ago, he was trying his latest batches of changa, taking only small samples because he was not ready for a full trip yet, and would get intensely sick the next day. The symptoms were very much that of a fever. High body temperature, yet feeling cold, sweating, lethargic. Towards the peak of this fever, his WHOLE BODY would just feel completely horrible, not a fun experience. Not to mention, lungs/throat were the worst of it. Breathing was really heavy and restricted, as if the airways were inflamed and closed up. So he had really quick breaths and could not take full deep breaths without coughing intensely. At first, SWIM just thought that he got a sickness from someone else, that happened to coincide with a changa session with some friends (they did not react to it, so he didnt make that association at first).

Then, it seemed like every changa session would result in him being intensely sick the next day. During his third intense fever (that day it got REALLY bad, so while laying in bed all day, he had plenty of time to hypothesize about his condition and try determine all the different factors associated with it). By now he was clear about the association between the sickness and the spice sessions.

NOTE: The crazy thing was that none of SWIM's friends were suffering from any of these effects. Many had tried his changa and had nothing but pleasant effects and no acute fever-type reactions whatsoever.

The first big clue was how it never really happened with the freebase alone, so it must have been something to do with the changa.

TEST 1: He tested this hypothesis several days later, taking a little bit of freebase, and literally waiting to see whether a fever would start. So far so good, he was as good as a whistle.

TEST 2: One of his changa blends was made by adding Blue Lotus extract - which was dissolved in some alcohol. He hypothesized that whatever the alcohol used in this extract was, it was spawning this reaction. He tried a little bit of his pure Pao d'Arco changa to test it out. He only used about 20mg of it. Result was no fever reaction.

From this, he conluded that the Blue Lotus Extract solvent must have been the culprit, and has made a "carved-in-stone" rule to never use it to make changa.

HOWEVER!!

There has been another interesting development.
On one day he did 100mg of the Pao d'Arco changa, and had some beautiful experiences. He did two of these in succession, and was greeted with beautiful colourful meadows of pleasure. Then, the unexpected happened. About 5 hours later he began starting the initial effects of the fever beginning. Breathing slowly started getting heavier and harder, coughing, etc. Sure enough, that night he was in bed coughing and with elevated body temperature - BUT NOT QUITE AS BAD AS WHAT IT WAS LIKE BEFORE! If one could rate the fevers on a scale of 1 - 10 (worst). The first few ones were like 9's, whereas this one was more like a 3-4. The next day recovery was much quicker which proved that this fever-type reaction wasn't as bad.

He uses 99% IPA to make his changa, could this be the problem? It seems to be the only thing that may contribute to this. Smoking the herbs separately has never caused SWIM any problems. Could it be that the IPA is "denatured"? SWIM hasn't read much about denatured alcohol or why it is bad. Seems weird that this is ONLY happening to SWIM! Not the 10 or so other people who have smoked [large amounts at that SWIM likes to share ] his changa blends, even the ones with the Lotus extract.

Probably the next experiment to try is to make a pure changa blend with acetone, see if the effects happen as well?

If anyone has any idea about this? Has had any similar experiences? Has any advice? would be greatly appreciated.
SWIM has had about 5-6 fevers in the past 30 days...not a fun experience. At one point (when it got really bad) he simply thought he was allergic to spice and would have to give it up forever! This was a VERYYYY sad thought! T_T

Thanks for your time!

Yes, The same thing happened to Swim, many moons ago. first batch of blue lotus and pau darco, 92% ipa , partook of 4 Bongs in extended session, really very nice time , swim felt incredible during session.

6 hrs later when awoke in the morning swim started to feel like he had a bad headache, it progressed to a high fever, delirium,chills, vomit, the whole bit, lasted about 8-12 hours , literally felt like swim was poisoned. it was bad.


swim decided it was something in the process gone wrong, started over, made it again with 151 Rum (which if you have never tried it is like drinking fire water, but dries well and does not leave a strong rum taste , maybe a hint.) anyway I havent had any issues at all since.

swim tossed the first batch, swim figured even if it was a weird un-related illness (seems unlikely) , and not the changa, will always have that fear that it was contaminated,which cant be a good way to enter hyperspace.

.. and swim was so sick that time, swim really didnt feel like asking a friend to be a guniea pig.


so Vampir I too would be interested to hear if anyone else ever had such an issue as well. I read that you used 100 mg that time when it made you sick, perhaps this is something to do with large amounts causing illness, just a thought because the time swim got sick was the most swim ever smoked in one session.

of note : No wash was done on that first batch and the ingredients included mixed white and yellow from separate pulls. yellow proved to be harsh on its own, too much so, so it was thrown in with the changa mix. perhaps it was contaminated with solvents or lye.

Ive smoked blue lotus many times, even on its own, makes me sleepy and a bit randy, but not feverish.

as for washing = Im a bit more of a Purist now...no mo' yellow for this fellow

Ahh! This is interesting to hear that the exact same thing is happening to a few others. It definitely begins with the really bad headache, always a sure sign that impending fever doom is coming. Together, we may be able to figure out the primary factor in this.

SWIM doubts it has to do with the purity of your spice (although it couldn't hurt to do purification). All he's been using so far is pure white.
It must have something to do with the IPA. Since both times that the sickness happened, to SWIY and SWIM, they had large amounts of the IPA changa.

To clarify, the Blue Lotus extract was in tincture form, dissolved in some alcohol, not specified on the bottle. SWIM just added roughly 8 drops of this into his 1gr batch. This changa batch was the worst, even smoking 20mg of it would cause the really bad symptoms - like you mentioned it feels like you've been poisoned. Whereas the Pao d'Arco changa didnt have blue lotus extract added, was made with IPA, and only elicited the weaker symptoms when lots of it (100-200mg) was smoked. Nonetheless the symptoms happened. So it definitely has something to do with the IPA.

SWIM will take your advice and look to using the rum you recommended.

Hopefully this thread catches the attention of others experiencing similar events, it's definitely not a pleasant thing and who knows what permanent harm could result from it.

yeah Vampir , could def be the IPA , and since it was swims first try at changa, perhaps it was rushed and not properly dried.
If I recall, swim said it may have been ever so slightly damp. tbh it is hard to remember.

IF it is the case where the IPA was not fully dried, this would be a good thing to figure out so no one else gets sick.

OR , if certain ppl have a allergic reaction to the IPA for whatever reason, also good to figure out.

I am personally prone to migraines which can be bad and leave me holing my head all day, but I know it was MUCH worse - 50-100 X worse then a serious migraine, swim felt like he was dying and had bad delirious dreams and was down and out for all day and into the evening.. way beyond a headache, as sick as swimmy has ever been.

anyway, yes, a good thread, also I did post this way back when, but no one else chimed in , your the first to mention having similar reaction.

of note - the Blue lotus in swims changa was leaf , not extract.

Update my friends, I regret to post that I had another episode of fever after smoking blue lotus electric sheep.

here is the part that baffles me and Im hoping one of the knowledgeable ppl here can help figure out.

I was using a batch that I have been working with for months with no problem , though, I had always used the classic VG and not once did I have any fever after.

a few days ago I decided to finish it off , was just under a full cone left so I figured I would go old school and smoke a cone thru the bong , it was incredible, one of my best experiences to date.

6 hours later I started to have the chills really bad and the headache started, bad coughing, lungs full of fluid, continuous and horrible vomit, I was down for about 36 hours with bad flu like symptoms.

so, the same batch that I have used for 2 months with no ill affects using the VG , caused me to have a fever when I smoked it , instead of vaporizing.

the only other time I had this happen ( as stated earlier in this post), is the very first time I tried electric sheep, when I used my bong as i didnt have the VG then.


so, how can it cause illness when thru a bong, but not when thru the VG??

help a brother out because I really love my elec'sheep and dont want to give it up.

I got the same thing from caapi changa, not hardly 36 hours worth but definately was outta commission for the rest of the day.

I have a feeling its the alcohol thats left to sit for weeks, possibly catches some bugs that way, and since the VG just vapes it maybe the bugs arent carried into yourself.

throw another reason on the pro-VG pile.

What doesnt make sense is how the bugs survive in the alcohol/herb mix.

when you say caapi changa, do you mean just caapi & spice?

the elect sheep is Caapi ,blue lotus and pau darco

man , if it is caapi issue, Im really not happy, cause I love my changa.

Ill have to keep trying new blends and see what happens.

Jimm , I really appreciate your input on this, but Im still a bit confused, I used 151 rum and let it dry on this last batch. was a small batch, I guess, but the amount of alcohol I used, is far less than I have consumed in a night of Mojito's with friends,

so,.. is it because we are smoking this we are getting this poisoned affect, cause I surely dont get this affect from a couple drinks of the same alcohol.

I understand what your saying about the alcohol being left out and possibly becoming contaminated, that makes sense to me, though Im still uncertain If I can blame that or not.

yeah VG all the way, but damn, its nice in a bonger now and then. and i want to be able to enjoy it without this extra worry ~Damn it!

well hopefully some other changa lovers will chime in and share their experience and expertise so we can figure this out..

East or west coast tours?
Im long time head , started in 85? saw them maybe 100x , went to twice that many parking lots

your avatar , that a Mayan stucco?

thanks brother -

off topic , but I stayed on the east coast , saw them in Canada too. those were the days, traveling around in my Vw camper with my friends and my hot young hippie chick girlfriend, man , no cares other then how we gonna make the next show and who scored the best nugs last night!

glad I was part of that vibe , its faded now , but I still lives on in our memories.

Rip jerry.

I used to collect mayan stucco , though I have sold them all now, and I still collect mayan pottery, I love Mayan art and know a fair bit about it.

~ bad ass avatar

friendly alternative to ipa would be acetone(do an evap test before using).although its kind of expensive.

also my last batch was months old, and completely dry flakes, seemed like no moisture at all was left in it.

agreed jim, lets dig here, I want to know why I get sick. I tend not to do things that make me feel like crap, and so I dont want changa to be one of them.

Im starting to wonder if it is an allergic reaction? allergic to caapi? ~shudder to think

I'm glad I'm not the only one who has had this happen to me. It's prob the alcohol as you guys stated, or just by smoking to much. I never had an issue with it when I used my vaporizer, but since I've went to a freebase with changa or just caapi leaves with spice in it, I've had the headaches, coughs throughout the night. It's gotten to the point where I don't even want to do DMT. Overall I think the best way to smoke dmt is through a vaporizer, You don't get all those carcinogens in your lungs that you do with smoke.

I'm sure it has something to do with how we're all making it as well. Smoking any type of alcohol can't be good for you.

SWIM has only used acetone in her changa preparations, and has never had these issues.

Alfrendo is an inexperienced preparer of changa. He made some with THH from internet source and MHRB jimjam extract. Only, he didn't have IPA and the jimjam was already soaked into a few mL of heptane. He used the heptane. Again, this is from an inexperienced preparer and user, but no ill effects were noted.

However, Alfrendo did once use 90% Isopropyl to make ole fashioned hash once. Didn't make good hash but it sure gave headaches and some lung goo.

I have heard of this fever like symptoms, but only rarely - and I could not tell you what it was.

If you really don't want to use alcohol when making Changa, you can just melt the DMT on a plate over a steam bath. Then you have to really stir and combine well. You can also just add a little bit of vodka or ethanol to this which allows an easier and more even infusion.

(btw, when you are melting on a plate, 1:1 would be quite messy. 20%-30% DMT Changa blends make combining easier.)

Some will say, well, then it doesn't really infuse into the plant matter, well, the point is, it doesn't need to, "even enough" is even when smoking a cone's worth, you get the same amount and visually, the difference is not really noticable to this changa and changa that has been fully infused with a solvent.

Ethanol, Vodka and IPA are the only agents that SWIM has used to make Changa, in order of preferance.

yeah , the thing is dagger, it never happened when vaped, at least for swim , only when inhaling the smoke.
could it be part of ayahuasca healing dragging out illness,..I have to say I dont believe so, it feels like poison, not medicine at all.

sounds like swim will go acetone and see if it works.

I never tried to smoke straight elf powder yet , only vaped , so I cant really say if it happens with straight spice, but someone else posted it did , -may have been another thread.

and if the acetone fails, looks like ill try the melt as chocobeastie suggested.

thanks for all the posts, good to get this out there in case others also have same issues.

I got some bad headaches and hard to breath from my first changa batch, although i suspect it had remains of white spirit in it (don´t ask)

Ive done all my batches with acetone and except the first there has been no problems at all, i have even smoked the batch the same day i prepared it i have used acetone every time,

SWIM smoked changa/infused lead that i obtained else where and have had no problems. SWIM is looking to make some using 99% IPO ... (is it? or IPS O?? ill check the bottle) fingers crossed it will go fine,he'll be vaping but does do enjoy a smoke now and again so will get back to you with the results

I use 92% IPA (I know I should really just get the 99%), but I've never had any of these troubles. Could it possibly be that you haven't completely let the IPA evaporate from the leaf? I use blue lotus too and have never had any problems.