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official extraction help thread Options
 
downwardsfromzero
#3181 Posted : 6/6/2020 10:33:51 PM

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tripwire wrote:
downwardsfromzero wrote:

By adding metallic zinc to an acidic solution you have made a solution of zinc salts. Adding base to that makes an insoluble precipitate of zinc hydroxide. You would need to be careful if extracting from this sludge as it increases the risk of forming emulsions.


Silly me, especially when i did this before too but had forgotten about it. Thank you for this reply, my limited knowledge left me flat on my face here.

downwardsfromzero wrote:

Adding base to already precipitated zinc hydroxide may or may not cause it to dissolve - it can be a bit temperamental. Were you to have added an ammonium salt to the before adding the base, this would have kept the zinc in solution; there is a small chance it may work at this late stage. Adding a strong solution of ammonia may also help to dissolve the sludge but the fumes from the ammonia would be pretty nasty.


downwardsfromzero wrote:

Re-acidification would inevitably increase the liquid volume. If you acidify only until the zinc hydroxide has dissolved, then add ammonium chloride, then boil the excess water off, you'll (probably) be able to add base and pull from a clear solution.


(Do you really mean ammonium chloride? I just ordered aqueous ammonia which i think is the hydroxide)


Need confirmation on the aqueous ammonia versus ammonium chloride please Smile

Yes, I do mean ammonium chloride. Ammonium chloride would be added at the start in order to provide some ammoniacal nitrogen to form a soluble complex with the zinc before base is added. This means when the base is added, hydroxide ions don't simply pull protons off water molecules complexed to the zinc, which would lead to precipitation of some hydroxide if you tried using aqueous ammonia.
Ora, lege, lege, lege, relege et labora

“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 

Trippy glass for trippy people.
 
NimbleSoda
#3182 Posted : 6/23/2020 5:19:44 PM

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Hey guys, really quick question -- I am having a problem now where my end product (be it DMT fumarate, or freebase DMT) tastes a lot like Xylene Wut? , I have confirmed it's Xylene in my end product. When the fumarate is placed on my tongue it gives a mild numb/burning sensation/taste literally identical to Xylene. I have washed the fumarates with Acetone multiple times, powdered it, even threw it in the oven (very low setting) for a while to dry, and it will just not stop tasting like Xylene. Hitting the freebase burns and tastes like Xylene too...how on earth can it still taste like Xylene? Here was the process...

2hr acid boils on 500g ACRB > reduced > basify with sodium hydroxide > pull with 800mL Xylene in 2 separate jars (400 each jar), whole mix is double boiled whole time. Xylene is so effective historically if hot in pulling damn near everything out with one pull if you use a fair deal for the pull. Tried second pulls many times, nothing came of it when using this much hot Xylene.

800mL total Xylene was defatted (mini-A/B) once, and only once, with 150mL vinegar mixed with 300mL water. That acidic water was then basified again, and pulled with just 500mL Xylene this time. Used FASA on this Xylene and it resulted in probably a total of 13g of fumarates.

Fumarates were dried and washed with acetone thoroughly, then dried again thoroughly. Any clues why the product tastes and smokes so harsh? Shocked Thanks for any and all help!

EDIT --- Wait, I just had a realization. Since dissolving the fumarates in water and evapping off the water works to rid the xylene (of course cause it mixes with the water and evaps off), couldn't he also just dissolve the freebase in acetone and evap off the acetone in the same fashion since Xylene and acetone are miscible?
 
Brennendes Wasser
#3183 Posted : 6/23/2020 10:28:25 PM

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Washing your Fumarates with Acetone in the beginning should already have removed all the Xylene - if its sticking on the surface of the crystals and not evaporating, then any Acetone would wash it away. Traces might be present inside of the crystal grid, like water is present in a lot of minerals, but that would just be traces and you wont notice them Oô

Quote:
Any clues why the product tastes and smokes so harsh?


I never placed Fumarates on my tongue, but FB DMT tastes quite spicy and burns, like wasabi / ginger. Any chance that the taste might be the same like other regular DMT that you have?

Also if the smoke is harsh: Did you evaporate the Fumarates? They have a much higher boiling point so any fapor of those should be much harsher than FB DMT.

Quote:
Since dissolving the fumarates in water and evapping off the water works to rid the xylene (of course cause it mixes with the water and evaps off


Thats confusing, didnt you do a whole procedure with xylene and water and they did NOT mix? Very happy Just because of this fact you were able to conduct your extraction, as both arent miscible. But nevertheless I would really not do it like this, there is no reason to further add water to help any evaporation of xylene regardless of miscibility. Just leave it in open air in a dark room, but I guess you already tried, otherwise you would not complain about the smell.

Again, washing Fumarates for some minutes with Acetone should remove all the xylene, no idea why it still smells like this as you say ...

Quote:
couldn't he also just dissolve the freebase in acetone and evap off the acetone in the same fashion since Xylene and acetone are miscible?


Same thing here: Adding Acetone would not speed up evaporation of Xylene. Better use a solvent that does not dissolve DMT - it will mix with any Xylene and then decant it - like when using Acetone with DMT Fumarates.
So to wash Freebase DMT you could use Pentane (can be bought as super-low boiling Naphtha, 40-60 °C, C4-C5) and dont heat the mixture up or better mix it in the freezer or fridge. But keep the container closed to prevent solvent gas to spread.

Another good way to check if there is still Xylene present may be checking the melting point. Any residual solvents will decrease the melting point downwards. Sadly there is no distinct melting point for DMT, as its dependent on the crystalinity - and many compounds have different crystal modifications. But if it is LOWER than 55 °C the chance is high that there is still a relevant amount of Xylene in it.
Check the

BIG Analysis on DMT !

Lots of interesting and possibly new stuff unraveled ;o
 
NimbleSoda
#3184 Posted : 6/23/2020 11:44:45 PM

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Brennendes Wasser wrote:


Thats confusing, didnt you do a whole procedure with xylene and water and they did NOT mix? Very happy Just because of this fact you were able to conduct your extraction, as both arent miscible. But nevertheless I would really not do it like this, there is no reason to further add water to help any evaporation of xylene regardless of miscibility. Just leave it in open air in a dark room, but I guess you already tried, otherwise you would not complain about the smell.

Again, washing Fumarates for some minutes with Acetone should remove all the xylene, no idea why it still smells like this as you say ...


Sorry that was a bit unclear -- dissolving the fumarates in water allows the particles to be very finely washed since the molecules will be all separated and the Xylene can finally be 'freed',so evapping off the water carries with it the Xylene (which should really float to the top and evap first). But I realize now a better, faster method of doing this would be to just dissolve the freebase in acetone and evap the acetone, accomplishing the same thing without any heating/oxidizing also...I am dealing with fumarates that will form a powder (sortof, they are very small clumps really which I think is the problem), and the freebase I end up with is a wax, so it's not so easy to just 'wash' this wax unless I dissolve it in something (I think acetone makes most sense).

Also - both the fumarates and the freebase taste hella gross like Xylene, and the freebase smoke is what is harsh, I'm not vaping any fumarates here..

The burning taste I mentioned would make my whole tongue and mouth numb for minutes on end. Not normal, and I am aware what regular spice tastes like. My only guess is that xylene must be stuck mixed with a lot of the plant oils in the product or something...the fumarate 'particles' don't dissolve in the acetone ever of course, so in theory they MUST forming clumps and trapping Xylene inside the crystal lattices as you said before, but in definitely noticeable amounts. Acetone wash didn't even improve the taste or smokeability at all when done on the fumarates

So the fumarates were thoroughly washed with acetone multiple times, and the fumarates did not smell of Xylene whatsoever upon freebasing. There must have been Xylene still in the fumarates 100% despite acetone wash, because dissolving the fumarates in water and evapping off the water again worked to clean the product, it no longer tastes strongly of xylene and smokes just fine. It for sure consistently removes a bunch of Xylene post-acetone wash...so confusing why a regular acetone wash hasn't been working for me.
 
monomind
#3185 Posted : 6/24/2020 1:56:55 PM

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Greetings Nexians,

I am not sure how to avoid a "Spaghetti" effect when asking a question on this thread but I have full trust the system is working.
I am doing my first dmt extraction: a BLAB with vinegar.
Is there a way to know when the limonene is exhausted after the vinegar pulls ? I did 3 pulls
but the pulled vinegar still have some faint yellowish color to it.

Cheers Drool
 
Brennendes Wasser
#3186 Posted : 6/24/2020 2:38:03 PM

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Quote:
dissolving the fumarates in water allows the particles to be very finely washed since the molecules will be all separated and the Xylene can finally be 'freed',so evapping off the water carries with it the Xylene (which should really float to the top and evap first)


Normally thats quite right - dispersing something in a big amount of other solvent will also disperse any residual leftovers within the crystal network and then you can get rid of all the liquid altogether. But in this case as Xylene is not miscible with water, you will not really wet the Xylene and even though some may float to the top, a big portion will also just stick to the crystals because of adhesion forces.
It may be like dipping your hands in olive oil and then washing it with plain water - as oil has no wetability to water you will not get rid of the oil.

But the thing with Acetone works of course and glad that it resulted in a better product now.



Quote:
Is there a way to know when the limonene is exhausted after the vinegar pulls ?


First dont be fooled by the colour, even slightest amounts of dying agents may cause a coloration. To know whether it is depleted you could take a tiny amount of solvent, like 10 ml from 100 ml and then add FASA to it.

You will very likely see big clouds, the problem is that the clouding always seems strong, so this is not a way to directly distinguish if there is much material in or not. But then just wait for the clouds to form crystals and weigh this. If you just have like a few mg that you cannot even weigh, then in the residual 90 ml there will also be nearly nothing else. If you got like 50 mg or more, it may still be worthy to get that residual 450 mg from the other 90 ml Limonene.
Check the

BIG Analysis on DMT !

Lots of interesting and possibly new stuff unraveled ;o
 
monomind
#3187 Posted : 6/24/2020 3:03:11 PM

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Thanks Brennendes Wasser Thumbs up
 
monomind
#3188 Posted : 7/1/2020 2:49:32 PM

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I got some 30X caapi resin ( which is much easier to source here than vine ) and tried to extract the alk from it.
It was brewed in boiling water, filtered and then basified with sodium carbonate till a ph strip showed around 11.
Nothing seemed to have crashed out. I left it in the jar for few days and now there is a very thin layer of some stuff at the bottom of the jar.
Ph is still 11 so I am quite baffled why I dont see any serious precipitation.
If anyone can chime in it would be great Smile
BTW, any point trying to raise the ph some more with lye ?

Thanks Thumbs up
 
doubledog
#3189 Posted : 7/2/2020 9:40:32 PM

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I heard that these caapi resins could be quite weak, it seems that they could contain just tiny amount of actives.
With pH 11, precipitate should be there.
 
monomind
#3190 Posted : 7/3/2020 10:01:13 AM

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doubledog wrote:
I heard that these caapi resins could be quite weak, it seems that they could contain just tiny amount of actives.
With pH 11, precipitate should be there.


No lye then...
thanks!
 
PedroSanchez
#3191 Posted : 7/6/2020 8:16:17 PM

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Hi guys
i have just finished the first part of my first extraction. i am doing a cold STB and i am using shredded MHRB, so i plan to leave the MHRB/water/lye mix sitting for about 3 days before i add solvent and go for my first pull.

my question is, should i be stirring it occasionally over those 3 days? or is it better to let it sit untouched?


thanks for the help <3
 
downwardsfromzero
#3192 Posted : 7/7/2020 12:40:21 AM

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PedroSanchez wrote:
Hi guys
i have just finished the first part of my first extraction. i am doing a cold STB and i am using shredded MHRB, so i plan to leave the MHRB/water/lye mix sitting for about 3 days before i add solvent and go for my first pull.

my question is, should i be stirring it occasionally over those 3 days? or is it better to let it sit untouched?


thanks for the help <3

It's probably a good idea to stir the mixture as you have used shredded bark. Stirring will assist in breaking the bark down and releasing the magic. Had the bark been powdered this would be less important.
Ora, lege, lege, lege, relege et labora

“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
PedroSanchez
#3193 Posted : 7/7/2020 6:27:21 PM

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downwardsfromzero wrote:

It's probably a good idea to stir the mixture as you have used shredded bark. Stirring will assist in breaking the bark down and releasing the magic. Had the bark been powdered this would be less important.


awesome thanks!

im glad to hear that, it means i get to do something rather than sit around waiting for 3 days Very happy

thanks for the help <3
 
CivilZombie
#3194 Posted : 7/8/2020 11:38:13 AM

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Hey all, long time lurker, first time poster here.

I have a couple questions about Q21s JimJam tek: In the revisited article Q21 rewrote about his teks, he talks about one method of ingestion that consists of dropping a couple of tincture drops onto some leaves then letting it dry for several hours: would I have to first heat up the tincture to make sure no vinegar is present (if i understand correctly, vinegar's boiling point is 118 celsius, so letting it sit won't evap the vinegar.)

From this question comes the next one: If I heat up the tinctue to evap the vinegar, the end product seems to be of a gooey consistency: in order to infuse some leaves with this goo, could I place the leaves and goo in a shot glass with some ethanol and then let it evap and dry (á la enhanced leaf?)

Many many thanks in advance, your forum has proven to be a great place to learn about this substance, hope this is posted in the correct place.

 
PedroSanchez
#3195 Posted : 7/9/2020 5:31:46 PM

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i have tested 3 potential solvents over the last few days. newport, clipper and swan lighter fluids. i have seen newport and swan recommended lots of times, but neither of the three seem to have evaporated cleanly. the clipper actually came kind of close, leaving just a ring.

i am wondering if i am doing something wrong? i use the bottom of a glass casserole dish, which i clean with washing up liquid and hot water, then rinse well with water and wipe down with a micro-fibre cloth.

i cant really see the residue until i shine a torch from the other side, but i assume if ANYTHING is there then its not good enough.

i was supposed to have another solvent here today but i guess its delayed, hopefully i will have it in the next couple of days and hopefully that one works! this is driving me crazy!


any suggestions would be very appreciated.

thanks <3

edit:
would it help to put the un-evaporated remains in an oven at low temperature?
and am i just being overly paranoid about the clipper fluid? Very happy

edit 2:
i just found a comment on another thread saying it is not a huge problem if you are freeze precipitating, which i am doing. is this okay if the solvent leaves a very slight residue?

edit 3:
even further digging has shown that some people who have been doing extractions for a long time say they always have some amount of residue left behind.
i think with the freeze precipitation and this combined i might have no choice but to just try it out and see what happens :/

i am going to do one more test, taking extra care to clean the surface very carefully, then i am going to probably just choose the cleanest one. not sure if thats the right thing to do. at least its only me smoking it Very happy

thanks again guys, sorry for the constant edits <3
 
monomind
#3196 Posted : 7/26/2020 12:36:37 PM

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Deconstructing Changa: Sanity check

Swim has some changa she wants to convert back to raw ingredients.
Her plan is:
1) Soak in IPA to get the spice out.
2) Then acid cook to get the harmalas out.

Sounds OK to you ?
Thanks Thumbs up
( And sorry Pedro for jumping the queue... but I believe the system will accommodate )

 
PedroSanchez
#3197 Posted : 7/26/2020 2:39:08 PM

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monomind wrote:
Deconstructing Changa: Sanity check

Swim has some changa she wants to convert back to raw ingredients.
Her plan is:
1) Soak in IPA to get the spice out.
2) Then acid cook to get the harmalas out.

Sounds OK to you ?
Thanks Thumbs up
( And sorry Pedro for jumping the queue... but I believe the system will accommodate )



no problem. my question is weeks old and i dont need an answer any more anyway Smile

i hope you get an answer, i would like to know how that works too.
 
downwardsfromzero
#3198 Posted : 7/26/2020 10:11:58 PM

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PedroPony wrote:
i am wondering if i am doing something wrong? i use the bottom of a glass casserole dish, which i clean with washing up liquid and hot water, then rinse well with water and wipe down with a micro-fibre cloth.
As a footnote, in the lab where I once worked glassware used for detergent analysis was always thoroughly washed with HCl and stored separately. There's every likelihood that residues from the washing up liquid remain on the glass which get redistributed by the NPS and become more visible as a result.
Ora, lege, lege, lege, relege et labora

“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
PedroSanchez
#3199 Posted : 7/27/2020 10:21:00 PM

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downwardsfromzero wrote:
As a footnote, in the lab where I once worked glassware used for detergent analysis was always thoroughly washed with HCl and stored separately. There's every likelihood that residues from the washing up liquid remain on the glass which get redistributed by the NPS and become more visible as a result.


thanks! <3
that was my concern with that. in the end i recreated my evap process, but with clean naphtha, including tilting etc. that left no marks.
it does make me question how well i am cleaning my glassware though, at least the precipitation dish and solvent storage jars. maybe i should invest in some HCI for those items at least.
 
monomind
#3200 Posted : 7/28/2020 4:51:02 PM

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Some hand holding pretty please Smile
Can I base ( with SC or lye ) a salt saturated acidic rue soup same as I would if there was no salt present ?
Thanks
 
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