We've Moved! Visit our NEW FORUM to join the latest discussions. This is an archive of our previous conversations...

You can find the login page for the old forum here.
CHATPRIVACYDONATELOGINREGISTER
DMT-Nexus
FAQWIKIHEALTH & SAFETYARTATTITUDEACTIVE TOPICS
YOUR FREEDOM - Nick Clegg's govt website- time to blitz it with anti-prohibition logic! Options
 
ohayoco
#1 Posted : 7/1/2010 2:57:53 PM
DMT-Nexus member

Senior Member

Posts: 2015
Joined: 07-Oct-2008
Last visit: 05-Apr-2012
For those who don't know, Nick Clegg is the Liberal Democrat who is vice-PM of the new UK coalition government. He has launched a website asking the public what freedoms they want restored.

We HAVE to get together to blitz this government website with arguments calling for the decriminalisation of entheogens, and ending criminal convictions for possession of entheogens.

This is a big chance to get arguments across and impress with our numbers, determination and moral righteousness in defence of our human rights.

Delay your cynicism. Get down to the internet cafe. Campaign!

(And if it turns out you can't do so from abroad- I don't know I havent tried- then get on a UK proxy to do so!)

http://yourfreedom.hmg.gov.uk/
Everything I write is fictional roleplay. Obviously! End tribal genocide: www.survival-international.org Quick petitions for meaningful change: www.avaaz.org/en/
End prohibition: www.leap.cc www.tdpf.org.uk And "Feeling Good" by David D.Burns MD is a very useful book.
 

Explore our global analysis service for precise testing of your extracts and other substances.
 
1664
#2 Posted : 7/1/2010 3:02:52 PM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 728
Joined: 09-Oct-2009
Last visit: 01-Jan-2022
Location: London
This is actually worth doing. I doubt it will change anything, but if a statistically significant number of peoplevoice there opinion, it will be noted and may add weight to any developments in future.

Does anyone have an idea for a draught letter we can use or basic points to get across? We must avoid usng the wrong language!
Oh great - the world has just been replaced by elf machinery.
Sic transit gloria mundi

 
soulfood
#3 Posted : 7/1/2010 3:12:17 PM

DMT-Nexus member

Senior Member | Skills: DMT, Harmaloids, Bufotenine, Mescaline, Trip advice

Posts: 4804
Joined: 08-Dec-2008
Last visit: 18-Aug-2023
Location: UK
Wake up you beggars, it's Cleggers!

It's definately very important to think together on this one, to make sure that our numbers speak as one in effect. It's also important to make the opinions seem as reasonable as possible. For example rather than asking for legalisation of all entheogens, it would probably be better to request "regulations for legal use of entheogens" or something along those lines. I love the ideas of some country's that allow a certain amount to be grown for personal use, but do not permit distribution, or production over a certain level which could be viewed as suspicious.


Edit: Also I think it would be better to discuss this over at CEL than to discuss it here. CEL definately needs more info over on it's forums.
 
polytrip
#4 Posted : 7/1/2010 5:37:19 PM
DMT-Nexus member

Senior Member

Posts: 4639
Joined: 16-May-2008
Last visit: 24-Dec-2012
Location: A speck of dust in endless space, like everyone else.
This is a good idea. I would not use the term entheogens, since mr clegg is probably not familiar with this term.

The UK has had a couple of incidents that will actually help focussing on the problems considering prohibition, like the senior government advisor regarding addiction, substance abuse and related issues having to resign after being ad odds with mr what was his name again, ah now i remember , mr brown, about prohibition.
 
corpus callosum
#5 Posted : 7/1/2010 6:11:40 PM

DMT-Nexus member

Medical DoctorModerator

Posts: 1952
Joined: 17-Apr-2010
Last visit: 23-Oct-2023
Location: somewhere west of here
I would be a little cautious about this; Ive just driven home from work listening to the PM program on Radio 4 and the reporter mentioned that there had been alot of 'crazy' suggestions including a fair few about legalising drugs.

Remember, Mr Clegg is a venal Machiavellian character and this is reflected in his successful career in politics.We are already putting ourselves on the wrong side of the law by our interests and I doubt if he will be receptive to the suggestions of such de-facto deviants as ourselves.

Do also remember Mr Clegg was quick to ditch his principles for a chance of participating in government in the UK and he didnt express any reservations about upping the classification of cannabis back up to class B from C.

I dont think realistically the public here are in favour of easing the control of such controlled substances;this is in part a reflection of their ignorance about drugs in general ie weed=smack=all the others.

I fear that we may shoot ourselves in the foot by highlighting the issue of entheogens if we are too forthright in stating our case.He will have researchers who would look into any slightly left-field issue which are repeatedly being posted about on his survey site and this could inadvertently lead to the issue of plant products which are not as yet controlled coming to their attention.DMT is already a class A schedule 1 drug here and could result in controls being applied to these items.


When dealing with politicians we should judge matters by their standards rather than our own....
I am paranoid of my brain. It thinks all the time, even when I'm asleep. My thoughts assail me. Murderous lechers they are. Thought is the assassin of thought. Like a man stabbing himself with one hand while the other hand tries to stop the blade. Like an explosion that destroys the detonator. I am paranoid of my brain. It makes me unsettled and ill at ease. Makes me chase my tail, freezes my eyes and shuts me down. Watches me. Eats my head. It destroys me.

 
polytrip
#6 Posted : 7/1/2010 10:11:36 PM
DMT-Nexus member

Senior Member

Posts: 4639
Joined: 16-May-2008
Last visit: 24-Dec-2012
Location: A speck of dust in endless space, like everyone else.
corpus callosum wrote:
I would be a little cautious about this; Ive just driven home from work listening to the PM program on Radio 4 and the reporter mentioned that there had been alot of 'crazy' suggestions including a fair few about legalising drugs.

Remember, Mr Clegg is a venal Machiavellian character and this is reflected in his successful career in politics.We are already putting ourselves on the wrong side of the law by our interests and I doubt if he will be receptive to the suggestions of such de-facto deviants as ourselves.

Do also remember Mr Clegg was quick to ditch his principles for a chance of participating in government in the UK and he didnt express any reservations about upping the classification of cannabis back up to class B from C.

I dont think realistically the public here are in favour of easing the control of such controlled substances;this is in part a reflection of their ignorance about drugs in general ie weed=smack=all the others.

I fear that we may shoot ourselves in the foot by highlighting the issue of entheogens if we are too forthright in stating our case.He will have researchers who would look into any slightly left-field issue which are repeatedly being posted about on his survey site and this could inadvertently lead to the issue of plant products which are not as yet controlled coming to their attention.DMT is already a class A schedule 1 drug here and could result in controls being applied to these items.


When dealing with politicians we should judge matters by their standards rather than our own....

I think clegg isn't as cynical as you say he is. He's options are limited by political reality.
btw Today a brittish CONSERVATIVE minister sugested to abolish prison sentences for minor offences such as possesion of drugs.
There are always those who say sugestions about legalising are crazy, but many of those 'crazy' people like that senior adviser, actually have something to say and are taken seriously by many important politicians.
I also don't think ayahuasca ingredients are that much at risk.

Those who use words as 'crazy' are often people who've become so accustomed to power and influence that they've never felt any pressure to look at things from another angle.

The liberal democrats have little opportunity and much to loose. They'll have to make many compromises, but they also have got to deliver if they ever want to make a chance of getting re-elected. Because many still see them as a sort of political experiment.
 
1664
#7 Posted : 7/1/2010 10:57:04 PM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 728
Joined: 09-Oct-2009
Last visit: 01-Jan-2022
Location: London
Without getting too bogged down in politics - I think Clegg is about as progressive as you can hope to find regarding drug policy in the UK. Legalisation across the board is not going to happen, but the Lib Dems did state in their manifesto that they were committed to drug policy reform and "harm reduction" as opposed to oppressive criminalisation of drug users and addicts. I voted for them for this (and other) policies that I support.

Check out the links below as a start point for where they stand on this issue. Obviously they are only part of a coalition and so have limited power, but if this stance isn't viewed by our community as a step forward, then I dont know what ever will be.

linky linky

linky linky

Realistic political aims is where I believe we should channel our energy. Claiming all drugs should be legal will be ignored as "crazy" and to change to that position overnight, frankly, would be crazy. Progressive policies are where it is at, and with the right attitude towards the reform process, we can be part of that progression.

Regarding re-election for the Lib-Dems, I think this is also unlikely to happen. This coaltion has put us in a period where the LDP have more power than one may expect. Marry this with a relatvely liberal Obama in the White House, and IMO you have a unique-in-my-lifetime opportunity to put the wheels in motion for sensible laws to be passed that ease our draconioan and freedom limiting drug laws.

The Nexus is a rare place of liberal, but common sense views. Amongst other points, in general we:
Do not tolerate profit making from drugs.
Discourage addiction, or harm of any kind through the use of drugs.
Advocate possession for personal use only.
Encourage evidence based judgement of substances.

I think with these values we have more common ground with mainstream politics than many would have imagined possible even 5 years ago. If one of our brighter, senior members from the UK were to draught a letter, I would be happy to put that letter to Clegg.

I dont think the Nexus should be mentioned by name (at all) but many people from here are well educated, well paid contributors to our society. We deserve to, and it is our right to, have our views heard and sensibly debated. We should strive for progress through rationality and compromise. Our viewpoint has a real chance of being listened to, if maybe not acted on.




Oh great - the world has just been replaced by elf machinery.
Sic transit gloria mundi

 
clouds
#8 Posted : 7/2/2010 12:01:18 AM

Human


Posts: 811
Joined: 28-Nov-2009
Last visit: 28-Jun-2023
1664 wrote:
Do not tolerate profit making from drugs.


If drugs become legal, someone will profit from them. Just exactly like people profit from Salvinorin and Cannabis today.
 
1664
#9 Posted : 7/2/2010 12:11:28 AM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 728
Joined: 09-Oct-2009
Last visit: 01-Jan-2022
Location: London
^^ that maybe true but I think I've been quoted a bit out of context there. I don't actually agree with complete legalisation. At least not yet.
Oh great - the world has just been replaced by elf machinery.
Sic transit gloria mundi

 
Phantastica
#10 Posted : 7/3/2010 9:53:42 PM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 788
Joined: 09-May-2010
Last visit: 07-Dec-2019
I LOVE your idea ohayoco, thank you so much for bringing this into light. I submitted an idea on the HMG website, HERE. I didn't read the rest of the thread before submitting the idea, so couldn't take soulfood's and 64's statement into consideration: that asking to legalize all entheogens would probably be ignored. Also, i'm not politics-oriented, so don't know how laws work and all that...and just a novice writer. I'm not sure if i used the correct language or not, but my views are clearly portrayed.

So anyway, what we should do is that everyone who submits an idea should post the link here, so that we can all vote on them together and raise the numbers. Or maybe we can together come up with a few ideas and just focus on increasing the numbers for the best ones out of those.
Any thoughts/comments?
oh, and i'm in US, and it worked for me without any proxies and all that, so US/International residents should get involved with this too, ASAP

*edit* from a few comments received, i guess i used loose terminologies on the HMG website. sorry for the unprofessional writeup, because i would hate to misrepresent the communityEmbarrased do you think so? Rolling eyes
<3
 
88
#11 Posted : 7/3/2010 10:12:47 PM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 776
Joined: 27-Jan-2010
Last visit: 07-Aug-2019
Location: uk
Top man - I was thinking about precisely this today. What an opportunity to get the repeal of prohibition into public debate, and possibly change the law. An historic opportunity. Thanks for posting, nice one
"at journey's end, we must begin again"
 
kaos.underwave
#12 Posted : 7/10/2010 3:00:30 PM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 192
Joined: 18-Jan-2008
Last visit: 08-Feb-2013
Location: up there
1664 wrote:
Do not tolerate profit making from drugs.

just thought Id mention most of us do tolerate profit making from drugs, every time every time we hit the pub, etc
"Do not tolerate the sale of illegal drugs for financial profit" perhaps? Found a good quote by Archbishop Sentamu on BBC about profit
-
In his address to the synod, Dr Sentamu also spoke about business and commerce, and the importance of ethics.
"We need the pursuit not of profit, but of economic justice on a global scale, for this is the key to solving so many of our political and social problems," he said.
"And our own local business ethics, as with our individual personal ethics, are a vital contributory aspect of this whole picture. All will benefit from a truly ethical approach to every aspect of our life."

Dr Sentamu added that there was a "moral imperative" to reduce human suffering.
"Wealth creation is a good thing, but with a spiritual health warning. Obsession with wealth becomes an evil - and it is not to be an end in itself, but rather a by-product of good and purposeful work," he said.

Phantastica, even if you had misrepresented the community, at least you represented yourself, keep doing it
Onwards and upwards
_______________________
"am SWIM human? am SWIM alien? am SWIM even WHAT?!"
 
kaos.underwave
#13 Posted : 7/10/2010 3:50:41 PM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 192
Joined: 18-Jan-2008
Last visit: 08-Feb-2013
Location: up there
ok so I read the idea Phantastica... can I dish out some friendly pointers?

I don't think you misrepresented anyone, I think most of the critical comments focus on

"For someone that claims such a strong viewpoint, you need to state your case as applicable to UK society much clearer, rather than being so idealistic" Your ideas and voice have strength, structure and articulation, but there are elements of the way you put your ideas across that can counteract the political objectives. Remember that you are also trying to speak to people like those who posted negative comments, who may be as convinced as you are of their own beliefs.
For example,
"If you have the slightest doubt about the decision to be made on this issue, then Iโ€™m 200% convinced that you have never experienced these divine substances, and the divine state they invoke. If these substances had already been legalized, then I know for a FACT that this world would be so much more of a beautiful, loving, and peaceful place." This kind of language is strong and honest, but sounds quite patronising to the unexperienced I expect, and discussions of peace and love will instantly lose you a lot of potential listeners. Talk to these people in their own language, dont just mention studies, therapies, facts and figures, focus around these. Talking about '"patriarchy-oriented dominator" culture.' and 'the true nature of all things can be seen, which is Oneness', tends towards the newage/conspiracy/radical/hippie in their eyes, and will isolate you from the greater proportion of your audience.

The idea of 'psychedelic' is inaccessible for a lot of people, so its difficult to discuss it publicly in a concise space, without drawing these kinds of half-jealous, half-scornful responses; also I cant believe some .gov moderator had the tenacity to move discussion of this idea to the 'tax and legalise cannabis' idea, which is apparently exactly the same...wtf
Onwards and upwards
_______________________
"am SWIM human? am SWIM alien? am SWIM even WHAT?!"
 
Phantastica
#14 Posted : 7/15/2010 2:44:29 AM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 788
Joined: 09-May-2010
Last visit: 07-Dec-2019
kaos.underwave wrote:
ok so I read the idea Phantastica... can I dish out some friendly pointers?

I don't think you misrepresented anyone, I think most of the critical comments focus on

"For someone that claims such a strong viewpoint, you need to state your case as applicable to UK society much clearer, rather than being so idealistic" Your ideas and voice have strength, structure and articulation, but there are elements of the way you put your ideas across that can counteract the political objectives. Remember that you are also trying to speak to people like those who posted negative comments, who may be as convinced as you are of their own beliefs.
For example,
"If you have the slightest doubt about the decision to be made on this issue, then Iโ€™m 200% convinced that you have never experienced these divine substances, and the divine state they invoke. If these substances had already been legalized, then I know for a FACT that this world would be so much more of a beautiful, loving, and peaceful place." This kind of language is strong and honest, but sounds quite patronising to the unexperienced I expect, and discussions of peace and love will instantly lose you a lot of potential listeners. Talk to these people in their own language, dont just mention studies, therapies, facts and figures, focus around these. Talking about '"patriarchy-oriented dominator" culture.' and 'the true nature of all things can be seen, which is Oneness', tends towards the newage/conspiracy/radical/hippie in their eyes, and will isolate you from the greater proportion of your audience.

The idea of 'psychedelic' is inaccessible for a lot of people, so its difficult to discuss it publicly in a concise space, without drawing these kinds of half-jealous, half-scornful responses; also I cant believe some .gov moderator had the tenacity to move discussion of this idea to the 'tax and legalise cannabis' idea, which is apparently exactly the same...wtf

thanks for replying kaos and pointing out the subtleties of the text. your critique is very much appreciated, as it helps me understand the conceptions it invokes within the readers, and presents me with an opportunity to become a better writer. when i wrote it, i was kinda in a hurry as well due to my classes, so couldn't devote to it the full attention it deserved. this contributed in the unprofessional and loose structure of the argument as well..and i also couldn't edit it later on..oh well.
and i don't get either why the mod couldn't see the apparent difference between just cannabis alone, and psychedelics in general; pretty retarded

*edit* ok, so i contacted the mod of the HMG site, and they unlocked the thread again
<3
 
 
Users browsing this forum
Guest

DMT-Nexus theme created by The Traveler
This page was generated in 0.036 seconds.