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Ideas for using the Nmt left over from a Dry Ice separation of DMT Options
 
Synkromystic
#1 Posted : 6/1/2014 1:57:51 PM

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I thought it might be an interesting thread to make about what to do with the nmt- "carbatmate?" leftover from a dry ice dmt/nmt separation.

I was thinking of re-basifying the nmt carbamate and extracting the pure nmt and adding to some to a manure substrate for a mushroom grow. There would be a control group with out any added nmt, and the grown would be done with isolated strains so that they are exactly the same genetics. But it will be a while before I could do this experiment

Any other ideas?



 

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DreaMTripper
#2 Posted : 6/2/2014 1:05:55 AM

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Convert to fumarates maybe?
 
cubeananda
#3 Posted : 6/2/2014 2:10:48 AM

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freebase it and make some chicken changa
 
Nathanial.Dread
#4 Posted : 6/2/2014 2:30:47 AM

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Bioassay in increasing doses. I don't think there are any controlled, in-depth studies about the nature of a pure NMT experience.
"There are many paths up the same mountain."

 
arcologist
#5 Posted : 6/2/2014 4:36:38 AM

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I've got a substantial amount left over from my extractions (more than I have DMT). I convert the NMT carbamate to NMT acetate using acetic acid, then base and pull with xylene and FASA to fumarate for storage. I have tried a bioassay up to 75mg, here.

It's mostly useless, though, since the effects are pretty mild. I smoke it sometimes when I am out of weed, but again it only last 15 minutes, so the 'buzz' is short lived. I tried converting it to DMT but that is definitely not possible without special (and hard to get/suspicious) reagents.

I might try your mushroom idea, but it seems unlikely that it would work.

Does anyone for sure know the legal status of NMT in the US? As far as I can tell, it's unscheduled, but I can't find much info.
 
Cognitive Heart
#6 Posted : 6/11/2014 5:54:54 PM

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The law says a tryptamine is illegal if the nitrogen has
Quote:
"one or more alkyl substituents but no other substituent"
.. therefore NMT is illegal and TMT is legal, am I correct? I recall reading this on the web, not sure where though.
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Synkromystic
#7 Posted : 6/11/2014 6:02:07 PM

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Cognitive Heart wrote:
The law says a tryptamine is illegal if the nitrogen has "one or more alkyl substituents but no other substituent;". Therefore NMT is illegal and TMT is legal, am I correct? I recall reading this on the web, not sure where though.

--

Neutral


That darn nitrogen! Got to go around making everything illegal. If only the world was free from nitrogen. It would be a truely wonderful world without hate. No violence. No war. I'm glad we can blame it all on the nitrogen. Thanks God.

You are probably correct cognitive heart. That sounds like the kind of logic our 'would be' masters use.
 
Nathanial.Dread
#8 Posted : 6/13/2014 8:07:52 PM

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Cognitive Heart: got a source for that? I'm not saying I don't believe you, but I thought I was up to date on all CS laws in the US and I've never heard that before.

My expectation is that it would be considered illegal under the Federal Analogue Act, given it's structural similarity to N,N-DMT.
"There are many paths up the same mountain."

 
SnozzleBerry
#9 Posted : 6/13/2014 8:32:51 PM

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Nathanial.Dread wrote:
Cognitive Heart: got a source for that? I'm not saying I don't believe you, but I thought I was up to date on all CS laws in the US and I've never heard that before.

I believe the quote in question refers to UK drug laws...
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downwardsfromzero
#10 Posted : 6/17/2014 10:26:40 AM

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The US law (via wikipedia):
"Definition

21 U.S.C. § 802(32)

(A) Except as provided in subparagraph (C), the term controlled substance analogue means a substance -
(i) the chemical structure of which is substantially similar to the chemical structure of a controlled substance in schedule I or II;
(ii) which has a stimulant, depressant, or hallucinogenic effect on the central nervous system that is substantially similar to or greater than the stimulant, depressant, or hallucinogenic effect on the central nervous system of a controlled substance in schedule I or II; or
(iii) with respect to a particular person, which such person represents or intends to have a stimulant, depressant, or hallucinogenic effect on the central nervous system that is substantially similar to or greater than the stimulant, depressant, or hallucinogenic effect on the central nervous system of a controlled substance in schedule I or II.
(B) The designation of gamma butyrolactone or any other chemical as a listed chemical pursuant to paragraph (34) or (35) does not preclude a finding pursuant to subparagraph (A) of this paragraph that the chemical is a controlled substance analogue.
(C) Such term does not include -
(i) a controlled substance;
(ii) any substance for which there is an approved new drug application;
(iii) with respect to a particular person any substance, if an exemption is in effect for investigational use, for that person, under section 355 of this title to the extent conduct with respect to such substance is pursuant to such exemption; or
(iv) any substance to the extent not intended for human consumption before such an exemption takes effect with respect to that substance."
[emphasis added]
The structural similarity of NMT to DMT is unarguable, so clause A (i) covers that. When the CSA was drafted, there was (according to Shulgin) an 'and' after clause A (i) which has been omitted in the final document passed into law. This intentional omission makes life easier for the prosecutors so they don't have to go into just how much of "a stimulant, depressant, or hallucinogenic effect on the central nervous system that is substantially similar to or greater than the stimulant, depressant, or hallucinogenic effect on the central nervous system of a controlled substance in schedule I or II" any given substance might have, and also gives them leeway to pursue cases where there is no structural similarity, merely similarity of effect.

Then there's clause A (iii) which basically means that if you misrepresented caffeine powder as a new substance having similar effects to cocaine then they could get you as well.

Of course, the phrase "substantially similar" is intentionally vague, too. Is serotonin "substantially similar" to bufotenine? And just how "substantially similar" is the "stimulant, depressant, or hallucinogenic effect on the central nervous system" of NMT to that of any other "controlled substance in schedule I or II"?
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benzyme
#11 Posted : 6/17/2014 2:32:37 PM

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it is obvious that most lawmakers are non-scientists (only 2 lawmakers in the current congress
have a science degree), this sort of ambiguity is largely absent in science. Nomenclature, stuctures, mechanisms, metabolism, pharmacology...all relatively clearly defined.
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Hiyo Quicksilver
#12 Posted : 6/28/2014 8:56:43 PM

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Mix in a third the weight of DMT and smoalk it... That's what I do, at least. Now there's something to write home about.

It's good in caps, with some mushrooms or LSA, even LSD.... NMT alone is really subtle, but is a fantastic companion to almost any entheogen even in small amounts. It most certainly has a unique character that's often overshadowed by the residual DMT in the mix.

I actually do my pulls with 50F Hexane first, then switch to warm Xylene to finish it off... the result is relatively pure DMT from the first go, and a gooier mass from the second which had little DMT but a lot of the secondary alkaloids. I keep them separate, and use them for different purposes entirely. Both are equally valuable though, IMO.
 
nen888
#13 Posted : 7/10/2014 11:01:26 AM
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..Hiyo Quicksilver is spot on about the synergy with dmt..there is more going on..

as for other suggestions of what to do with it,
how about basify, put 100mg in a vaporiser in dark room and inhale efficiently?
it's about what you're 'looking for'..and with nmt that isn't visuals..or sounds..
it's space/mind..or mindspace..
it is an excellent meditation aid..and has as yet unexplored possible therapeutic uses..

chromatograph verified pure nmt is noted to rapidly darken (to yellow/orange) on standing in air (by Shulgin, my tests years back and others) ..this is likely a betacarboline (as there is no nmt-oxide) ..this appears to extend the duration of nmt to around 45 minutes..music and thought are enhanced.. (see entheogenic effects of nmt thread)

it is possible the carbonate product being obtained in the innovative new separation method is, when made freebase, not pure nmt..
and of course it would have to be the freebase not the carbamate to have proper effects..




 
catfish
#14 Posted : 11/5/2014 5:27:32 AM
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I have also found NMT too be a useful meditation aid...it prolongs the singing long after the primary effects have subsided, with DMT and NMT together as a combo when extracted from ACRB.
The carbamate and the carbonate are two different beasts...one is organic, the other isn't...one is an N-alkyl adduct, the other a salt...and, as such, unless conditions permit dissociation in an ionic solution, the former dominates over the latter in the case of sublimating dry ice.
As far as N-carbamate-NMT autocyclizing to a betacarboline, it's not at all unlikely. My personal belief is that there is an intermolecular conversion between DMT's and NMT's and the betacarbolines during certain biological processes like dream states and learning and emotional bonding, and that the various enzymatic systems prevent this kinetically favorable equilibrium as opposed to conversion requiring said enzymes.
Carbamate-NMT (can I coin the term "C-NMT or CNMT"?), AKA N-formyl, N-methyltryptamine, is a reactive species at both the N-formyl residue and the indol-2-yl and will readily form intramolecular bonds at those sites.
I could be wrong, and often am...
 
HippingTrippY
#15 Posted : 11/5/2014 5:50:01 AM

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I am DIGGING the ACRB too my brother. There is something magical going on for sure.
 
 
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