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Trying to improve Acacia information Options
 
Gowpen
#661 Posted : 8/5/2012 5:26:53 AM

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Thanks Seldom, there is a lot of work to do for Acacias (and Australia), and you are sure doing your fair share. This site/thread has generated 'Global Interest'.
Thumbs up just wish I had more time to research..... one day !!

Some of these lesser known Acacias, Grandifolia for example are so very rare (A. Grandifolis= tiny isolated spot in Queensland), it might be a good thing to keep the locations secret, what do you think ?
Regards G
One can never cross the ocean without the Courage to lose sight of the shore
 

Good quality Syrian rue (Peganum harmala) for an incredible price!
 
The Traveler
#662 Posted : 8/5/2012 1:35:11 PM

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Gowpen wrote:
Thanks Seldom, there is a lot of work to do for Acacias (and Australia), and you are sure doing your fair share. This site/thread has generated 'Global Interest'.
Thumbs up just wish I had more time to research..... one day !!

Some of these lesser known Acacias, Grandifolia for example are so very rare (A. Grandifolis= tiny isolated spot in Queensland), it might be a good thing to keep the locations secret, what do you think ?
Regards G

I think that any endangered species location should be kept secret. Not all who visit this site have good intentions and I would hate it if an already endangered species would get it even harder by giving such information.

It is also very important to understand for all that harvesting the roots of acacias will KILL them, so please don't ever harvest their roots, there is enough interesting content in other parts of the plant that can regenerate.


Kind regards,

The Traveler
 
Gowpen
#663 Posted : 8/5/2012 2:15:19 PM

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The Traveler wrote:

I think that any endangered species location should be kept secret. Not all who visit this site have good intentions and I would hate it if an already endangered species would get it even harder by giving such information.

It is also very important to understand for all that harvesting the roots of acacias will KILL them, so please don't ever harvest their roots, there is enough interesting content in other parts of the plant that can regenerate.


Kind regards,

The Traveler

I would hate to see ANY location info here, rare or not .....
One can never cross the ocean without the Courage to lose sight of the shore
 
Gowpen
#664 Posted : 8/6/2012 1:30:22 PM

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SpiceMind wrote:

Hey gowpen, I'm also trying my first ever extractions on acacia this year and so far have had two failed attempts on a suspected Acacia floribunda twigs and phyllodes. I'm at least glad to know I've got the process down as I follow these steps aswell^

Just wondering after your pulls of shellite(diggers?) do you combine and evaporate a little then freeze? Or have you been totally evaporating? And how have you found your product to come out?

I have been freezing then evaporating the leftovers. Looks like crystal then turned to gooThumbs down
Also have you found normal white vinagar to do the trick? And what ph do you aim for?

Thanks heaps I appreciate any help it's been a tricky journey Thumbs up
S.M


Yes SM I evap a bit then freeze. In the beginning a evapped so at least I could see something..... but I had the wrong Acacia, took me a while to ID the real deal, when freezing the DMT will drop from the solvent along with some other active goodies, oils and waxes.... but persevere, I choose to re-chrystalise mine to clean it, I lose weight but I feel it increases potency and smoothness of the inhaled vapour perhaps by concentation, thus using less.
Normal 'White' vinegar Yes, black and gold will do the job.. and diggers shellite for me....also, diggers 98% NaOH (normally on top shelf at bunnings, pay cash Wink
Regards and be safe G
One can never cross the ocean without the Courage to lose sight of the shore
 
Seldom
#665 Posted : 8/6/2012 1:34:25 PM

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the above list is now in this .pdf

Smile

edited for unneeded keywood associations .. google search algorithms


also i agree locations should definitely not be posted
 
SpiceMind
#666 Posted : 8/7/2012 3:09:14 AM

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😉
 
Gowpen
#667 Posted : 8/7/2012 6:21:55 AM

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SpiceMind wrote:




Do you usually evaporate just until it gets foggy? Say 30%? And how long in the freezer?

From 200g phyllodes/twigs. Around 450ml solvent Used and evaporated to 350ml, I freeze for 10 hours. Small flattish Chrystals where formed on glass.. I poured the solvent off. Stuck bowl in freezer upside down for a hour with lid. The Chrystal like substance was just a thin layer on the bowl.. Dry fully then scraped up to be a sticky toffee colored gum. Does this sound farmiliar?Confused

I'm thinking the plant I use might have some dmt salt but mostly the oils and wax you speak of. And just doesn't want to form Chrystal's.. Im hopeing I'm on the track.
I will be trying different flori Phyllodes from a different location and trunk structure to see if this helps.
Allso I haven't done a proper re-x with any of my final product of both attempts. I tried but I think it failed, due to rushing most likely and wrong method.
I'm glad the acacia community is here!

Thanks and regards SM




Oh yes , sounds like you are on track, Try evapping 450ml down to say 200 and see what happens. Usually when I put it in the freezer I see crystals within hours, until the shellite is completely clear. NMT and DMT and other triptamines have different charecteristics when freeze/evapping..... hey better than that, look up all the posts by Endlessness, he REALLY knows his stuff as does Nen888 and Bricklayer. Most of what you are experiencing and asking questions about have been written about here. Do some more searches ... I was very luckey to have had the benefit of reading all I could before I extracted, my ID skills are tuned into Acuminata so I have no help to offer you regarding Floribunda but look at the index in the Acacia ID section and I'm sure what you are looking for is there....
If not , ask away my friend...... you are so close now I'm sure....
One can never cross the ocean without the Courage to lose sight of the shore
 
SpiceMind
#668 Posted : 8/7/2012 8:50:12 AM

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Thanks GSmile
I really do appreciate the guidence and words of support.
And yes I'll be on the search bar again for sureBig grin . Great minds can be found in the nexus! I'll be letting you all know how I go over the next cuple of weeks with what I've learntThumbs up

SM
 
nen888
#669 Posted : 8/15/2012 11:34:48 PM
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..yeah, i concur with Growpen (how ya goin mateSmile?) on doing google searches for topics within the Nexus..this is an enormous resource..

..the next time i log in i will begin an ACACIA EXTRACTION WORKSPACE..someone's welcome to beat me too it if they like..Smile [EDIT: now created & linked]
so please, no more extraction queries if possible, more info/results..

posts like SpiceSailors' and recent Growpen and Seldom, amongst others, are really perfect i think for a thread like this..giving info, pics, knowledge etc..and corrections of information (published, net etc) are important too..

and BIOASSAYS of species is important information i've tried to encourage in this thread (new frontiers, as opposed to endless experiential reports of the some species..

and last..thanks wira for pointing out that its Tetrahydroharman (not tetrahyrdoharmine) that was reported in A. baileyana, and other acacias..given that Harman has been found fairly recently to have fairly potent MAOI effects, it is unclear what the activity of tetrahydroharman is..it certainly has CNS activity (as i know from bioassay)..the Tetrahydro-addition usually renders a betacarboline not potent as an oral MAOI, however..it's still a fairly unknown compound, T-H-Harman..and g'day bricklaya..!
.

 
nen888
#670 Posted : 8/16/2012 1:26:14 AM
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..a Central & South American Acacia in need of more focused research is Acacia cornigera [see entry here]..it is cultivated, and there are numerous published references to it containing 'alkaloids' without naming them, with only C. Ratsch AFAIK saying (fairly confidently) dimethyltrypyamine..alkaloid levels are affected by ant-interaction..
flowers and geographic range pictured below (btw, lurker 'guests'..you miss out on all the photos..!Smile)
nen888 attached the following image(s):
A. Cornigera flowers.jpg (145kb) downloaded 246 time(s).
map_of_Acacia_cornigera.jpg (65kb) downloaded 247 time(s).
 
nen888
#671 Posted : 8/17/2012 2:56:00 AM
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..i've now added a fairly detailed Acacia Phyllode Tek to the Acacia Extraction Workspace>Extractions>A/B..Acacia maidenii (spring flowering form from NSW) leaf and small twig, in observed experiment, yielded approx 0.3% slightly soft crystal alkaloids, with predominantly dmt-like effects..hope that helps..

..another thing that's good to discuss here is the cultivation of acacias..
there's a brief guide to growing here p19..if they are given extra attention, lots of water and sun, and a well drained but not too dry potting mix/soil, most will grow fast (unlike in the wild where they rely on often infrequent rain for growth) ..nitrogen boosts growth as well as probably alkaloids..
Nexians in areas like southern europe or mid-USA should be aware that acacias will happily thrive in such climates..and most australian species can and have been grown successfully in England and the Netherlands..
..the fragrant golden flowers bring joy and peace, they condition the soil (with nitrogen-fixing symbiotic micro-organisms), and a few are now considered good for digestion, due to the fibre..the gums of some species provide valuable nutrient and natural mild-sugars (polysachharides)
..that said, if dmt became mainstream then i think the best solution for demand would be hydroponic cultivation of Phalaris aquatica..it is very fast growing..the Italian AQ1 strain yields 1.0% mainly dmt..
Acacias are perhaps for the 'specialist' or devotee, or the synchronicity of living near them..some are 'called'..when Demeter needs to speak to the masses i think it's the ancient grasses that will come to the front..for the past decade Jurema's been holding the fort..respect to Mimosa..

and speaking of demeter, ancient references and clues about acacias (egypt, india etc..) , such as bomshiva's or beautifulsorrow's posts, are really cool..and scientific studies missed by the thread..

be well all..
 
Untitled
#672 Posted : 8/19/2012 1:44:52 PM

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Can somebody please tell me how much of Acacia Auriculiformis bark is needed for a decent extraction?
Which is the best extraction method for Acacia Auriculiformis?
I followed the DMT Handbook with the same bark and I failed.

A.Auriculiformis / A.Mangium which provides a better yield? as these are the two acacias growing abundantly in my region.
 
acacian
#673 Posted : 8/20/2012 8:52:13 AM

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well i was fortunate enough to camp in an area abundant with acacia mucronata var. longifolia and grabbed myself some stem bark and phyllodes to extract from. trees were fairly young.. one of them was a little older ... will post extraction results tomorrow or the day after

smoked some bark and it tasted quite strongly of dmt too.. hopefully it lives up to its taste Smile
 
nen888
#674 Posted : 8/20/2012 8:56:45 AM
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untitled..the only information on auriculiformis is that Trout/Appleseed found trace 5meoDMT in the stem bark..in one test..and mangium is claimed DMT from one or two sources without reference..in other words there isn't much information, and this is an area of research, not guaranteed results..
..if your mission is to learn the art of dmt extraction from a known reliable source, then, i would suggest starting with A. confusa, used in chinese medicine..
there are some very interesting tryptamine candidates in India, but the research is needed..A. caesia (DMT/DMT-N-Oxide in one scientific test) for example..

ps, i think there's something i don't vibe with about the so-called 'DMT Handbook'..

and pps. good-on-ya bricklaya..that's a nice tree that one..Smile
 
acacian
#675 Posted : 8/20/2012 9:55:26 AM

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nen what about the dmt handbook do you feel is particularly unreliable?
 
nen888
#676 Posted : 8/20/2012 10:04:52 AM
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^..actually i'm biased because it is totally from the era of non-sustainable harvesting, and some of the photos make me sick..yeah it should work in theory, but i've now heard about a dozen reports of the method not working (though in some cases that would be material)
..and DON'T use phosphoric or hydrochloric acid..
but, each to their own..i just think the range of options/discussions/teks here at the Nexus renders the 'handbook' redundant..
.
 
acacian
#677 Posted : 8/21/2012 10:15:09 AM

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interesting.. i don't know the guy who made the tek so i know nothing of his motives in extracting...i guess 2 kilos is a lot of material for personal use. in terms of whether the tek works though i've personally found it to work fine in the past.. i personally liked the lextek better and i like to add less vinegar than the 1:3 ratio. overall despite the harvesting issue i think its a pretty reliable tek and a good read for beginners. its still following essentially the same principles as all the other teks

ultimately though i think the way to go (as you also encourage) is to learn the principles behind the extraction methods yourself as then you can improvise and find your own way of doing it. i like to improvise a bit and spend a lot of time brewing the material and getting to know the plant better
 
nen888
#678 Posted : 8/21/2012 1:16:24 PM
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^..did you use phosphoric acid? ..from memory, these are the reports that 'didn't work'..
but, yeah, essentially what puts me off the 'handbook' is the pictures of trunk-stripped bark (poor old obtusifolia CANNOT sustain this kind of wild harvesting, and is declining in wild populations ALREADY as a result), and the gratuitous shots of giant wood-chipper machines..and NO MENTION OF SUSTAINABILITY, being sensitive to plants, growing them, or even alternate species..it was partly this 'handbook' which made me want to punch my computer screen and curse the cowboy-logger aussie-dmt scene, until i realized education and discussion were the answer (actually the plants told me that, but some people in here get worked up at a 'subjective' statement like that)
..so, WHOEVER WROTE THE 'DMT-HANDBOOK' - HAVE A THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU CAN DO FOR THESE TREES WHO'VE GIVEN YOU YOUR DMT..and ponder the merits of not having trafficable amounts..

..phew! sorry everyone else..had to get that off my chest..

may the trees bring you knowledge and love, kind ones..
.
 
r2pi
#679 Posted : 8/21/2012 1:47:05 PM
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^^ Like Smile
 
Seldom
#680 Posted : 8/21/2012 2:42:03 PM

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for sure, but remember lextek is a product of the nexus, i've seen the thread it emerged through i would think you can find it if you search, the member that made it is still active on at least 1 other forum. was just 1 person posting a single .pdf. makes you think.

really it's to the tree's benefit that they can be difficult with entry level extraction skills, as though they can show people they're not just an alternative for those that are too scared to order Confusa or MHRB..
 
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