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HPBCD DMT part 1 Options
 
Syragote
#181 Posted : 8/1/2021 12:24:02 PM

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After reading this thread I'm still not quite sure... is HPBCD complexed DMT sublingually active without THH?

I enjoy THH, but after a couple of hours it leaves me extremely tired for the rest of the day. I'll be yawning every ten seconds until I go to sleep that night. It isn't unpleasant, just debilitating.

Thanks for all your work on this.
 

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ava69
#182 Posted : 8/1/2021 3:26:55 PM

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I wrote:
Quote:
Monomind, please tell me how you have used harmine sublingually. It's quite possible even the freebase absorbs just fine under tongue.

monomind said:
Quote:
I measured 25mg of the freebase alks ( for full disclosure it was actually full spectrum alks from rue that due to ph were mostly harmine ) and used my index finger to "paint" my under-tongue and under-the-tongue areas uniformly.

I then pressed my tongue down and held it like that for 15-20 minutes. I did my best not to let any saliva getting in the way.

Effects were felt after 20 minutes or so and lasted for few hours. Vaping spice on top of that was very smooth and grounded.

downwardsfromzero said:
Quote:
I'll chime in here, since this is exactly what I tried the other night.

30mg sublingual harmine freebase is highly effective for me, more effective than the same dose administered intranasally. There was a pleasant body high, along with easy CEV/reverie/fantasy. Sleep was highly refreshing, too, with good, solid dreams. One other thing, the taste was quite acceptable. Sublingual is definitely a good ROA for harmine.

I'll try some harmine mixed with cornstarch to see if that has a positive influence on the absorption. If adding DMT, would that be co-administered, or should the harmine be dosed beforehand?

Thanks monomind and downwardsfromzero on how the freebase sublingual harmine works just fine, this is what I will use from now on, just place 35mg sublingual freebase harmine under tongue for 15 minutes around 45 minutes before I start to use the sublingual 630mg plain HPBCD complexed to 90mg DMT for the evening, around the same time I drop the oral 300mg THH. I re-dose the sublingual HPBCD DMT every 1.5 hour x 3 times for the night, for 4.5 hour experience with super long afterglow.

For those just reading this, post #153 on page 8 condenses this entire paper into 2 pages, so if you need something to print out to follow, post #153 would be the one.

Syragote said:
Quote:
After reading this thread I'm still not quite sure... is HPBCD complexed DMT sublingually active without THH?

I enjoy THH, but after a couple of hours it leaves me extremely tired for the rest of the day. I'll be yawning every ten seconds until I go to sleep that night. It isn't unpleasant, just debilitating.

Thanks for all your work on this.

Thanks for the kind words Syragote. Yes, the HPBCD DMT will work sublingually without the THH, but it's not anything like mescaline or true Ayahuasca when used without the THH, colors are dark, music is not enhanced, euphoria not apparent, beauty enhancement is not over the top, half life is not doubled, short lasting, etc. I guess everyone is different, it leaves me energized for rest of the day, make sure your THH is pure, and not contaminated with unconverted harmaline, which always causes sleepiness for me.

In conclusion, the importance of tetrahydroharmine (THH) for those who just started reading:

1. Part 10 of this paper: shows how to convert harmaline to pure THH in 1.5 hour for the first time (very fast) with 75% yield. Post also shows how to check the blue glow under blacklight to make sure it is pure. Any green in the glow means you still have un-converted harmaline, but follow instructions and you won't have any unconverted. It is the 2nd highest ingredient in Caapi based true Ayahuasca.

2. Dennis Mckenna Ph.D: page 115 "Thus, tetrahydroharmine may prolong the half-life of DMT by blocking it's intraneuronal uptake, and hence, its inactivation by MAO, localized in mitochondria within the neuron." In my experience, THH doubles the half-life of DMT, so when used sublingually or orally, you get a full strong 90 minutes out of it with long afterglow.

3. DMT only colors are subdued and dark, but THH brightens the DMT visuals: out of this world impossible bright neon colors are a trait of high dose oral tetrahydroharmine + moderate dose 60 to 70mg+ sublingual or oral HPBCD DMT: neon red-greens, neon orange-blues, neon purple-yellows.

4. DMT does not block serotonin on it's own, but THH does...this results in not only stimulation but euphoria in combo with the DMT: and real Ayahuasca visions become apparent...important teamwork. Ibogaine, LSD, mescaline, shrooms, 5-meo-dmt, bufotenin in Amazonian snuffs, all block serotonin, THH blocks serotonin.

5. THH has numerous similarities to mescaline, not only does it block serotonin like mescaline, LSD & shrooms, but it agonizes all 3 adrenal receptors just like mescaline, which are associated with beauty & aesthetics appreciation, beauty enhancement is "over the top" when THH is included. Actresses on TV will look like dazzling glowing super-colorful cartoon versions of themselves (just like with high dose cactus tea) only if you include the THH. Researchers have called THH the "tryptamine of the beta-carboline world" and rightly so.

6. THH is found in average 150mg in a cup of Caapi based Ayahuasca tea, when 2 cups are drank for evening at the vegetals, people are consuming around 300mg of THH.

7. Music will only sound bad-ass incredible if you include from 150mg to 300mg oral THH with your sublingual or oral DMT.

8. See table of contents on post #1 of this paper:

Part 14: (page 2 post #32) 300mg Tetrahydroharmine (THH) teaching visions all by itself

Part 15: (page 3 post #53) How HPBCD DMT was discovered with the help of Ayahuasca

Part 17: (page 8 post #153) Condenses this whole paper into 2 pages, explains how to use this with pictures & trip report. If you need something to print out to follow, these 2 pages would be it.

Post #1 also gives a link for pictures for those guests who can't log in here to view them.

professor8 (found here from 11/1/2010 he writes like a poet w/special powers of imagination & expression):
Quote:
Tetrahydroharmine (THH) has the ability to raise your vibration in a most powerful, yet subtle way. It brings a crystalline prismy texture to spice and adds a super clear watery dimension to Aya, like looking down through 10meters of shimmering Caribbean Sea on clear blue day. It brings a dimension of pure light to the entheogenic experience and encourages entities & intelligences of only the Highest Order. If one is not accustomed to perceiving these experiences with a spiritual perspective most of the nuances & subtleties THH brings on are overlooked and remain unseen and one would better enjoy Harmaline as a house painter chooses a roller over a brush, its about preference & choice.

300mg oral THH + sublingual 630 plain HPBCD (use 720mg if using 2-hydroxy PBCD) complexed to 90mg DMT is like a "600mg super-mescaline experience" in my experience. Again, post #153 on page 8 explains how to add 35mg sublingual harmine or an amount of oral harmine at same time you drop the THH so that this same sublingual 90mg HPBCD DMT dosage in combo with the oral 300mg THH dosage will feel identical to 750mg mescaline, even above 600mg of mescaline.

Pic 1: average dose THH per cup = 158.8mg (see page 119) Dennis Mckenna Ph.D Ayahuasca Study, 2 cups are often drank by members of the Vegetals (UDV, Santo Daime, Shuar Indian) over the course of an evening, thus bringing the mean average of THH consumed to around 300mg for those partaking of more.
 
starway7
#183 Posted : 8/1/2021 9:30:59 PM

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I can brew some rue tea..then reduce the volume...place under my tounge ..and i feel it every time...

This method effects dreaming...also slows down the DMT come u..! making the experiance more visual and easier to navagate...

I really cant see why using extracted rue freebase is needed here?

When brewed rue or cappi tea will work well oraly or sublingually...

Some say... extracted rue free base is cleaner?...but that depends who did the extraction!...and how well they flushed away the lye..and cleaned the final product?

And sometimes... more pure can mean ..[more dangerous!]


Rue is reasonably safe.. up to 3 .5 grams of seed used...larger amounts can make you sick or worse...

Chemist or kitchen witch... it pays to be carefull!

Unless your a sharp chemist...I suggest trying good old rue tea 30 to 45 minutes before spice...stay within the 1 to 3 grams of rue seed safty margen!

 
downwardsfromzero
#184 Posted : 8/2/2021 1:44:25 AM

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Here's a post in the welcome area specifically in relation to this thread.

It seems necessary, and important for harm reduction, to emphasize that the dose of THH should be started low (150mg or less) and worked up towards an optimum level which will vary from person to person. Not everyone has the same constitution as ava69.
Ora, lege, lege, lege, relege et labora

“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
ava69
#185 Posted : 8/3/2021 9:12:25 PM

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Downwardsfromzero said:
Quote:
It seems necessary, and important for harm reduction, to emphasize that the dose of THH should be started low (150mg or less) and worked up towards an optimum level which will vary from person to person. Not everyone has the same constitution as ava69.
Yes, wise advice. As downwardsfromzero noted on the linked thread, I am a bodybuilder since my early 20's, I weigh 220lbs, 12% bodyfat. I can handle a lot more than most when it comes to psychedelics, and I have decades of experience. Stay at 150mg of THH if you are new to this, and make sure it is reasonably pure.

Pic 1: average dose THH per cup = 158.8mg (see page 119) Dennis Mckenna Ph.D Ayahuasca Study, 2 cups are often drank by some more advanced members of the Vegetals (UDV, Santo Daime, Shuar Indian) over the course of an evening, thus bringing the mean average of THH consumed to around 300mg for those partaking of more.

My suggestion would be to stay in the range of one cup if you are new to Ayahuasca, if you are advanced like myself, 250mg is great, and 300mg is where you get hours of closed eye teaching visions in monochrome, the DMT colors the THH visions and adds on to them exponentially.

Starway7 mentioned pages back their "THH" did not glow solid blue like it should when it is pure under blacklight (dab a cue tip in water, dab wet cue tip in the THH, then smear it on a paper plate, and hold plate under blacklight), but rather had a green glow, which would indicate uncoverted harmaline, harmaline causes extreme sleepiness, nausea, dizziness, and many unpleasant body symptoms at high doses, like dragging yourself to the toilet to puke on all four legs if you consume enough. Please be careful if you do not make pure THH like myself, I do not trust anything unless I do it myself. Please at least blacklight test it if you get it from somwhere else.

We also don't have many posts of people using THH in combo with vaporized DMT, traditional usage is oral DMT (90 minute life) with harmine and THH, not the 1 minute intense journey of smoked DMT, so keep that in mind too. Sublingual HPBCD DMT has same life as oral HPBCD DMT ie 90 minutes.

A way of conceptualizing strength:

150ug of acid is a good standard medium dose, 150mg of THH is a good standard medium dose
250ug of acid is a strong dose, 250mg of THH is a strong dose
300ug of acid is a very strong dose, 300mg of THH is a very strong dose

At 300mg of THH all by itself, there are heavy open-eyed tracers like lightening flashes, and hours of closed eye visions that start with colored sparkles and fireworks (red, green, yellow, blue) that dart around and progress into full-fledged visions with eyes closed that are not only static but often animated like slow and high speed movies, but all one monochrome color like green or blue for me, when you add DMT, the visions then become colored and patterning on animals for example will display their associated colors, DMT also adds on to or builds on top the THH visions, expanding them, but the teachings and insights & visions are credited to the Vine, just as Gayle Highpine writes in linked paper.

Pic 1: average dose THH per cup = 158.8mg (see page 119) Dennis Mckenna Ph.D Ayahuasca Study, 2 cups are often drank by some members of the Vegetals (UDV, Santo Daime, Shuar Indian) over the course of an evening, thus bringing the mean average of THH consumed to around 300mg for those partaking of more.

pic2: Gayle Highpine on Caapi vine amounts during apprentice to become a Shaman

Pic3: Pic of my wet THH smear glow (blue) under blacklight

http://www.ayahuasca.com...the-origin-of-ayahuasca/
 
GLTASN
#186 Posted : 8/3/2021 9:32:46 PM

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Ava69,
Got my new thh in and did a blacklight test. At first I thought it looked green ish but after comparing all 3 versions of thh I have I'm quite surprised. The thh that has been mentioned here as pos not genuine and is lt brown in color is the smear at 6 0clock. The newest sample from the European Co.( ordered hcl but sure I got freebase as its a wt powder) is the 11 o'clock smear and my thh from the people who don't exist( yellow hcl looking powder) is the smear at 2 o'clock with a very yellow green color under blacklight. What do you think?
GLTASN attached the following image(s):
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"It may be that my role in the universe is, to question my role in the universe."
 
shroombee
#187 Posted : 8/3/2021 10:19:39 PM

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Some observations with regards to the Liftmode THH:

I've tested the THH freebase and it glows the same as my harmine freebase from another vendor - a greenish color. Possibly indicating both are not 100% pure. I read here and somewhere else that a small amount of harmaline will cause harmine to glow yellowish green rather than blue.

So I assume the THH also has some harmaline impurities. Perhaps some THH converted back. That doesn't mean the THH is too impure to be useful for our purposes. It just means there are some impurities.

I've taken 200 mg of the Liftmode THH (as recently as this past weekend with mescaline). If the Liftmode THH had any appreciable harmaline I think 200 mg mixed THH/harmaline would make me drowsy, nauseous, etc.

Also, the Liftmode THH comes with a certificate of analysis indicating 99+% purity. Do we suspect it could be fake? Check out the About Us on the Liftmode website. They seem to be a professional, legit company. Not one of the smaller players extracting harmalas in the garage and selling on a hand-coded HTML website.

As far as the brown color and the difference between blue/green glow, perhaps Liftmode manufactures their THH differently from how we manufacture ours using zinc, thus accounting for the difference? I don't know anything about chemistry to conjecture further on this point.

Disclaimer: I don't have any association with Liftmode. And if my writing seems too direct, it's just because I'm in a hurry and want to get the info out for folks without much softening of my writing. No angst is intended. Smile
 
ava69
#188 Posted : 8/3/2021 10:37:28 PM

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As a chemist, my suggestion would be to buy some harmaline on line (if you can't extract it yourself for the time being) and quickly convert it to pure THH in 1.5 hour by following post #12. It can be done with zinc dust, 10% janitorial ammonia, vinegar, and even coffee filters, the fancy equipment seen in post #12 is not needed. Just be sure to let the zinc dust all settle over 2 hours after the 1.5 hour spin cycle on the mantel (the zinc dust will all fall to very bottom, where you just decant solution above it thru a coffee filter) before proceeding if you don't have a vacuum pump and #101 filter to filter out the zinc dust in a hurry. THH glows light blue under blacklight like LSD or psilocin. The bright green & yellow glows above are concerning. Make your own and compare to what you bought, it's worth the trouble, that's what this place is all about anyways--do it yourself. Thanks for posting pics of what you have. Chemistry is fun, you won't regret it. Or you could just take a sample of the stuff you current have, and re-convert it, it won't hurt anything. Then compare the two side by side under blacklight and re-post for us all to see. From what I can tell the 6 o clock smear looks blue, good to go, correct me if I am wrong. I wonder why starway7 said his glowed green? Thanks for pics GLTASN and comments Shroombee.
 
GLTASN
#189 Posted : 8/3/2021 11:04:49 PM

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Shroombee, thanks for the time and advice. I've taken the liftmode 3x at 250mg and 300mgs. Deff didn't get tired or nauseous until I added harmine(was sold as harmine fb). I feel as you do that it's legit though not a true 100% but satisfactoryfor our needs. I will add my reports to this thread as they happen, thanks again.

Ava69, when converting harmaline to thh with zinc dust should I start with hcl or fb? Thanks 9nce again!
"It may be that my role in the universe is, to question my role in the universe."
 
ava69
#190 Posted : 8/3/2021 11:10:36 PM

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GLTASN said:
Quote:
Ava69, when converting harmaline to thh with zinc dust should I start with hcl or fb? Thanks 9nce again!
Freebase. Yes, the stuff you have sounds satisfactory, keep up the good work, look forward to future reports.
 
starway7
#191 Posted : 8/3/2021 11:46:40 PM

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GLTASN wrote:
Shroombee, thanks for the time and advice. I've taken the liftmode 3x at 250mg and 300mgs. Deff didn't get tired or nauseous until I added harmine(was sold as harmine fb). I feel as you do that it's legit though not a true 100% but satisfactoryfor our needs. I will add my reports to this thread as they happen, thanks again.

Ava69, when converting harmaline to thh with zinc dust should I start with hcl or fb? Thanks 9nce again!



Gltasn...I also have the lift mode THH..and it doesnt pass the blacklight test!

Can you test your THH under blacklight? [i desolved mine in a little white vinegar]

It doesnt glow blue under blacklight ..it glows mostly yellow with green tint...?

Is your LM thh..a tan colored powder? like mine is in the container?

I didnt know before ordering it....I believe this comes from ..CHINA !! and i suspicion its purity...
 
starway7
#192 Posted : 8/3/2021 11:54:13 PM

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GLTASN wrote:
Ava69,
Got my new thh in and did a blacklight test. At first I thought it looked green ish but after comparing all 3 versions of thh I have I'm quite surprised. The thh that has been mentioned here as pos not genuine and is lt brown in color is the smear at 6 0clock. The newest sample from the European Co.( ordered hcl but sure I got freebase as its a wt powder) is the 11 o'clock smear and my thh from the people who don't exist( yellow hcl looking powder) is the smear at 2 o'clock with a very yellow green color under blacklight. What do you think?



same as my lift mode thh ...yellow green??

I think it may be a product of CHINA! need i say more...
 
ava69
#193 Posted : 8/4/2021 1:15:54 AM

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Interesting....thanks for sharing Starway7. Try wetting with water instead of vinegar and also report back, then smear on a plate under blacklight. I wonder how they can make it so cheaply, it's extremely cheap...the labor alone is a lot to produce even for personal use. I also wonder if China is somehow making it now as well. It would not surprise me.
 
starway7
#194 Posted : 8/4/2021 2:20:52 AM

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ava69 wrote:
Interesting....thanks for sharing Starway7. Try wetting with water instead of vinegar and also report back, then smear on a plate under blacklight. I wonder how they can make it so cheaply, it's extremely cheap...the labor alone is a lot to produce even for personal use. I also wonder if China is somehow making it now as well. It would not surprise me.


I sent a photo in an older post of the lift mode ..[cirtificate of analysis] and it says..

.material lot number 20022401 ...country og origin...CHINA!

distributed out a a company in usa Chicago...they told me if not satisfied i could get a refund!and they didnt nesseserily need a return of product...

I might do that?

Also this stuff is not that cheap... its..70 dollars for 5 grams of brown powder? that isnt what it says it is...possibly because of improper storage?

Also being produced in CHINA ... doesnt make me feel to secure....because if their product harmed anyone...its too bad.... they will NEVER!..admit responsibility and there for NEVER be held responsible!

So it pays.. to research compleatly before ordering anything...




starway7 attached the following image(s):
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Voidmatrix
#195 Posted : 8/4/2021 3:17:19 AM

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I made a changa blend using the Liftmode THH and am curious about safety and efficacy of smoalking this blend with regard to the concerns and notes mentioned here.

Rookie question, though I know that many alkaloids glow under blacklight, and of a range of colors, are harmine, harmaline, and THH all expected to glow blue under a blacklight?

I have smoalked small amounts of this blend twice. The first time seemed normal at first, and then there was an odd shift. Second one was a less intense experience and seemed normalish. Not exactly what I remember of past blends of the same herb combinations. I usually use harmalas that I extract but ran out in creating this blend.

Planning on journeying on it again tomorrow. Still curious as to opinions.

One love
Chop Wood: Carry Water


Question everything... including questioning everything...
There's so much I could be wrong about and have no idea...
The only safe place is the choice you make
All posts, responses, ideas and supposed experiences are that of an imaginary interdimensional being . This being comes to you with the proclivity and compulsion for delving in depths it shouldn't. That being said, everything posted must, perhaps, be taken lightly and with a grain of salt. 👽
 
shroombee
#196 Posted : 8/4/2021 9:18:01 AM

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Voidmatrix wrote:
Rookie question, though I know that many alkaloids glow under blacklight, and of a range of colors, are harmine, harmaline, and THH all expected to glow blue under a blacklight?

From what I've read, pure harmine or THH should glow blue under a blacklight. Harmaline will be yellow/green. Even small amounts of harmaline mixed in with harmine/THH will cause the harmine/THH to glow yellow/green. Supposedly that's one way to determine the purity of your harmine/THH.

Whether there are caveats or not, I don't know. For example, perhaps harmine only glows blue if it's freebase whereas harmine HCL glows yellow/green? That's just a random made-up example.

Or if 1% contamination with harmaline causes the harmine/THH to glow yellow/green instead of blue, that's interesting trivia but not practical for our purposes as we rarely yield 99% pure alkaloids from our kitchen extractions anyhow.
 
ava69
#197 Posted : 8/4/2021 1:10:00 PM

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starway7 said:
Quote:
I sent a photo in an older post of the lift mode ..[cirtificate of analysis] and it says..

.material lot number 20022401 ...country og origin...CHINA!
Very interesting starway7! Our suspicions were confirmed. Thanks for sharing. China is incredibly good at making all sorts of quality pharmaceuticals for dirt cheap. Not but a matter of several years ago, I contacted China sources to see what it would cost for them to make THH for shits and grins, two different sources quoted a very high price for even just 1 gram, it appears they have come a long ways since then. Looks like THH for the masses then. I will still continue to make my own for personal use, but at least others have options. They obviously are not starting from a labor intensive & time exhaustive method using rue seed extractions, but seem to be using a method even beyond that posted in TIHKAL then, from scratch: https://erowid.org/libra...e/tihkal/tihkal54.shtml

Even TIHKAL starts the synthesis with harmaline, it seems the Chinese have perhaps found a way to make it without having to start from extracted harmaline from rue seeds, which is a long process, time consuming and labor intensive. Even my yield for personal use is the same as that of TIHKAL: exactly 75% each time. I think it's possible the Chinese have found a way to do this without having to use rue seeds and even a higher yield, perhaps more like 90%.

Interesting trivia for you: Dr. Andrew Weil, author of "Chocolate to Morphine" once wrote that he used to obtain the research chemical mescaline by mail back in the early 1970's, those were the days...
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Voidmatrix
#198 Posted : 8/4/2021 4:04:47 PM

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Thanks and gratitude to each of you. Not quite as concerned now. The difference of experience seems to be more from what the harmalas are extracted ie caapi or rue.

Will report back about changa experience. Will probably only go subbreakthrough at most.

One love
Chop Wood: Carry Water


Question everything... including questioning everything...
There's so much I could be wrong about and have no idea...
The only safe place is the choice you make
All posts, responses, ideas and supposed experiences are that of an imaginary interdimensional being . This being comes to you with the proclivity and compulsion for delving in depths it shouldn't. That being said, everything posted must, perhaps, be taken lightly and with a grain of salt. 👽
 
Voidmatrix
#199 Posted : 8/4/2021 10:35:11 PM

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Hello my lovely friends, checking in again.

Smoalked some changa. Wouldn't say it was even a subbreakthrough, as I ended up purging a good amount after the third hit, and was feeling thankful for the clearing of my system so left it at that. Still working my way back up to breaking through again...

To the matter at hand. The experience is of a slightly different characteristic than what I am used to with this blend. And I should mention that the majority of harmalas added were extracted from caapi. If I recollect correctly, I added Liftmode THH when I ran out of caapi harmala, so there's probably not too much in this blend.

I do however have another blend I have yet to try and if I remember correctly, it's all THH as the harmala component. That said hopefully I have time later in the week to try that one out and report back as well for better assessment of Liftmode THH.

After my experience, I decided to do the blacklight test on my own. Dissolved about 100mg in a small amount of water. I put some on a notecard and held it up to a blacklight. Nothing really glowing. Then I held the cup that contained the THH dissolved in water. Pretty noticeable glowing of yellow-green. So I'm leaning towards there being a small amount of harmaline that may be causing this based off of shroombee's desctiption.

Liftmode THH is likely fine. Nevertheless, I'm starting a caapi extraction this week.

One love
Chop Wood: Carry Water


Question everything... including questioning everything...
There's so much I could be wrong about and have no idea...
The only safe place is the choice you make
All posts, responses, ideas and supposed experiences are that of an imaginary interdimensional being . This being comes to you with the proclivity and compulsion for delving in depths it shouldn't. That being said, everything posted must, perhaps, be taken lightly and with a grain of salt. 👽
 
ava69
#200 Posted : 8/7/2021 9:42:43 PM

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So it looks like the concensus so far is two votes cast for the China made THH glowing green/yellow (starway & voidmatrix) and one vote cast for the China made THH glowing blue (like it should) under blacklight at 6'o clock (GLTASN). Yes, harmine also glows blue, but let's not complicate all this.

 
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