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HPBCD DMT very bioavailable sublingually under tongue, combo with tetrahydroharmine, Ayahuasca Options
 
ava69
#101 Posted : 6/15/2021 5:03:23 PM

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I will buy some 2-hydroxy PBCD and compare it to the plain HPBCD, and report back in a couple weeks...but I'm pretty sure they are 100% interchangeable. The 2-hydroxy is made to hold propyl containing molecules even better than plain HPBCD.

Final summary below:

Fog said:
Quote:
I acquired some 2hpbcd and gave sublingual a try with around 40mg fb to 320mg 2hpbcd. Unfortunately I found the sting to be equal to sublingual salts, which is just too painful for me. Maybe I am extra sensitive.

Anyway I'm excited to try an oral dose.

I have used this stuff sublingually (if you count the number of times I re-dosed in an evening) around 18 times in 3 month period, each time it is just as strong as an oral dose, in other words 80mg HPBCD DMT sublingual is just as strong as 80mg HPBCD DMT used orally with 200mg harmine + 150mg to 300mg THH all mixed together in a 2oz very hot water tea...no difference in strength. Use 100mg of crushed vit C to make the harmalas absorb into the hot water tea if they are in freebase form. Drink all mixed together into the hot water tea at the exact same time, just as Shaman's do for the highest strength.

Use a 1:1 molar ratio of DMT to HPBCD to trap all the DMT inside the tornado HPBCD cone.
This means 1:7mg weight ratio of DMT to HPBCD for the plain HPBCD. (60mg DMT to 420mg HPBCD)
This means 1:8mg weight ratio of DMT to HPBCD for the 2-hydroxy propyl beta cyclodextrin. (60mg DMT to 480mg 2-hydroxy PBCD)

I tolerate the sting very well, no issues. But yes fog, just use it orally if you want. It is several factors stronger than DMT salts used orally. I should know I ran a dozen experiments with 70 to 120mg DMT salts long ago, and the HPBCD DMT blows it away in strength & all encompassing just like the Hawaiian psychotria leaf. The DMT salts were all only +3 mild on Shulgin scale, while 70mg of HPBCD DMT is a +5 on Shulgin scale whether used orally with harmine or by itself sublingually. But always include from 150mg to 300mg THH no matter what.

Procedure: 300mg tetrahydroharmine (use from 150mg to 300mg) taken 45 minutes before orally + 80mg DMT complexed to 560mg HPBCD, use 640mg if using the 2-hydroxy propyl beta cyclodextrin using 12 drops very hot water from a nearby coffee mug all mashed together for 2 minutes on a spoon, using the end of another spoon to mash & knead it all together.

Then taken sublingually by placing bottom of tongue on to spoon, it will all adhere to bottom of tongue...hold for 15 minutes under tongue in the sublingual mucosa, then spit out any saliva (but not what's under your tongue), continue to hold any residue under tongue for 10 more minutes, never release your tongue the whole 25 minutes...press down hard with tongue the whole time to trap complex in the sublingual mucosa. 22 minutes after you begin all of this, you will go from sober to full throttle, a level 5 experience for 90 minutes, then you can re-dose by two more times every 1.5 hour in order to trip heavy all night.

I always dry the bottom side of my tongue and top of mucosa membrane with a tissue before I do this.

Anytime I do this, I always take antioxidants: 300mg +R-ALA, 1000mg vitamin C, vitamin E, and drink extra water. I also take 6 to 8 caps of fish oil daily and 1 cup of 3 berry blend in my protein shake, super antioxidant power and the fish oil keeps depression far, far away...fabulous good mood with fish oil and sunlight daily.

The sports supplement place I got the plain HPBCD went out of business once pro-hormones became illegal, just like alot of other places, they carried the 1kg containers for price of two movie tickets right next to all the pro-hormones for sale, so that you could complex them at home for sublingual use, all this was explained "how to do" by chemist & weight lifter Patrick Arnold on part 5 of this paper at beginning. This is who I learned it from.

The importance of tetrahydroharmine (THH):

1. Post #12 shows how to convert harmaline to THH in 1.5 hour with 75% yield. It is the 2nd highest ingredient in Caapi based true Ayahuasca.

2. Dennis Mckenna Ph.D: page 115 "Thus, tetrahydroharmine may prolong the half-life of DMT by blocking it's intraneuronal uptake, and hence, its inactivation by MAO, localized in mitochondria within the neuron." In my experience, THH doubles the half-life of DMT, so when used sublingually or orally, you get a full strong 90 minutes out of it with long afterglow. See attached paper.

3. DMT only colors are subdued and dark, but THH brightens the DMT visuals: out of this world impossible bright neon colors are a trait of high dose oral tetrahydroharmine + moderate dose 60 to 70mg+ sublingual or oral HPBCD DMT: neon red-greens, neon orange-blues, neon purple-yellows.

4. DMT does not block serotonin on it's own, but THH does...this results in not only stimulation but euphoria in combo with the DMT: and real Ayahuasca visions become apparent...important teamwork.

5. THH has numerous similarities to mescaline, not only does it block serotonin like mescaline, LSD & shrooms, but it agonizes all 3 adrenal receptors just like mescaline, which are associated with beauty & aesthetics appreciation, beauty enhancement is "over the top" when THH is included. Researchers have called THH the "tryptamine of the beta-carboline world" and rightly so.

6. THH is found in average 150mg in a cup of Caapi based Ayahuasca tea, when 2 cups are drank for evening at the vegetals, people are consuming around 300mg of THH.

7. Music will only sound bad-ass incredible if you include from 150mg to 300mg oral THH with your sublingual or oral DMT.

8. See post #42 (top of page 3) for 5 hour visionary journey using 300mg oral THH taken 45 minutes before, then sublingual 60mg HPBCD DMT taken every 1.5 hour, mind-blowing CEV's for hours on end, music super-incredible all night long.

The visions inspired me to buy a book on the Aztec myth of "Quetzalcoatl, the serpent of precious feathers", as I feel somehow this entity is a "teacher to mankind". I saw the brightly colored serpents many times in the 5 hours of visions, and now I understand why they are so commonly reported in Ayahuasca journeys.

They seem to possess divine knowledge that humans were not supposed to have been privileged to, but the serpents gifted this knowledge to humankind.

I recently found a 1.5 hour video on Amazon prime entitled "Ancient Alien Origins" which is all about this ancient alien flying serpent or dragon entity which is found in all religions of the world, very interesting video, highly recommend.

Here is a pic of the REAL san pedro I use everytime I go to waterpark, I make a tea out of 2 of these bad boys (2.5" thick x 12" long) and boil the tea down to 6oz, no foam, and filter thru a cotton ball in a funnel after boil down....very bitter tea made from two feels like 500mg mescaline, extremely beautiful at the waterpark...great for outdoors...trip my ass off. I use 300mg THH taken orally 45 minutes before the sublingual 80mg HPBCD DMT x redosed every 1.5 to 2 hours at home, it feels JUST LIKE 600mg plus of mescaline...beautiful beyond belief. Substitutes for the cactus for "at home use" VERY trippy, my 2 loves, oral THH + sublingual HPBCD DMT x 3 time re-dose all evening, or cactus tea for outdoors....both infinitely & profoundly beautiful.

See page 3 post #53 on how this was discovered with the help of Ayahuasca, Queen of the Forest during this time of Planetary Crisis. Page 4, post #70 is the 20 minute visionary visit from the dead Aztec Shaman.

Pic1: Cacti woman with four REAL san pedro each 2.5" thick x 12" long, each one equivalent of around 250mg mescaline.

pic2: teamwork of everyone here was important

pic3: Priestess of Quetzalcoatl

pic4: easy 2 step process & strength chart

Guests who can't log in, go here to see pics: https://mycotopia.net/to...ally-under-tongue/page-3
 

Trippy glass for trippy people.
 
starway7
#102 Posted : 6/15/2021 5:05:16 PM

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downwardsfromzero wrote:
starway7 wrote:
fog wrote:
I acquired some 2hpbcd and gave sublingual a try with around 40mg fb to 320mg 2hpbcd. Unfortunately I found the sting to be equal to sublingual salts, which is just too painful for me. Maybe I am extra sensitive.

Anyway I'm excited to try an oral dose.



Im wondering ....?...if the ...2hpbcd..we can get today ..is the same formula of .[ hpbcd ] that ava69 obtained a long while ago?

Could ava69s hpbcd ...be more effective than the [2hpbcd] we get today? ?

There are hints that this could be the case. One or the other - the older version, IIRC - has more hydroxypropyl groups attached and it seems this makes it more easy to absorb sublingually. It may be possible to track down a full chemical analysis of the two respective types.

Another possibility is that they are isomeric as there are two ways that what is essentially a propylene glycol molecule can be attached to the cyclodextrin (not even taking into account the possible different substitution sites on the cyclodextrin molecule itself). The outcome can be influenced by the reaction conditions used in the production of the HPBCD. It's very likely that the two different batches were produced differently and this will affect their properties in use.





I tryed again.. with low dose dmt only .[lots of saliva]..[no THH].. using 2oo mgs of.... [2 HPBCD] using 6 drops of grain alcohol to desolve the spice...adding 10 drops hot water and under toung it went for 15 minutes..

Again i thought was expeiancing very low dose visuals where objects on the room were very slightly moving..

[but that could be a placebo effect]? ...concidering ive done LSD over 60 times and visualizig movement of objects is posible without any drugs for me...

I did do a couple other tests...transdermally...


The other night before bed i crushed one half of a..[ Huperzene A]..tablet....
[a nutropic to boost memory to help in lucid dreaming]... and mixed it in a spoon with HPBCD ..some

alcohol...and hot water... applied it to the thin skin on my wrist [after wiping wrist first.. with acohol]...and wraped the wrist with thin plastic wrap...

I noticed the wrapped area on my wrist ..felt hotter than the rest of my whole arm...

And i know that heat improves ...transdermal absorbtion...and i also noticed my sleep was lighter than normal through most of the night/?

Posibly?... because a certain amount of transdermal absorbtion occured using the HPBCD [hupe A] alcohol combo?

Ive tryed transdermal twice now..using plastic wrap...[with HPBCD combo]..using the wrap does increase heat on skin surface ..and heat increaes transdermal absorbtion....

I noticed another thing about HPBCD...when applying it by itself on my wrist ..after a few minutes of drying [nothing covering my wrist]...i would touch my wrist and noticed the stuff seems to get very sticky in the skin...sticky enough that my thin wrist skin sticks to my finger ..[lifting the skin still stuck to my finger/

Then a couple minutes later [the stickyness gone]... the HBBCD dries to a shiny plastic like coating on the skin ..

The HPBCD seems to like to lock itself to the pores of my skin/could this stuff help in transdermal aplication?
 
starway7
#103 Posted : 6/16/2021 2:30:35 AM

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quote...There are two compounds that are commonly referred to as "HPBCD". One is hydroxypropyl-beta-cyclodextrin (CAS #94035-02-06, molecular weight ~1375 grams/mol). The other is (2-hydroxypropyl)-beta-cyclodextrin (CAS #128446-35-5. Molecular weight ~1460 grams/mol).

The 2-HPBCD (CAS #128446-35-5) is cheap and commonly available, and that's the version we're using for our tests. I've only found HPBCD (CAS #94035-02-06) at chemical supply houses and it's more expensive.


two kinds of HPBCD? any real difference??





 
ava69
#104 Posted : 6/16/2021 2:46:40 AM

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Starway7, My 2-hydroxy PBCD just came in, so on June 28th (Monday night) I will compare it to the plain HPBCD, and report back...I'm pretty sure they are 100% interchangeable. The 2-hydroxy is made to hold propyl containing molecules even better than plain HPBCD, but otherwise exactly the same. I cannot use it before then, as I am going to waterpark once a week for next two weeks, so I will be tripping on 2 x 12" san pedro each time as usual...to enjoy the beautiful outdoors and bikinis. Very happy

Use a 1:1 molar ratio of DMT to HPBCD to trap all the DMT inside the tornado HPBCD cone.
This means 1:7mg weight ratio of DMT to HPBCD for the plain HPBCD. (60mg DMT to 420mg HPBCD)
This means 1:8mg weight ratio of DMT to HPBCD for the 2-hydroxy propyl beta cyclodextrin. (60mg DMT to 480mg 2-hydroxy PBCD)

DMT = 188 g/mol
HPBCD = 1300 g/mol
2-hydroxy PBCD = 1500 g/mol

I will complex 80mg DMT to 640mg 2-hydroxypropyl beta cyclodextrin and compare it to my past several sublingual 80mg DMT complexed to 560mg HPBCD experiences, with of course 300mg THH taken 45 minutes earlier.
ava69 attached the following image(s):
HPBCD and 2-hydroxypropyl Beta cyclodextrin.JPG (70kb) downloaded 429 time(s).
 
ava69
#105 Posted : 6/17/2021 12:44:24 PM

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Starway7 said:
Quote:
I tryed again.. with low dose dmt only .[lots of saliva]..[no THH].. using 2oo mgs of.... [2 HPBCD] using 6 drops of grain alcohol to desolve the spice...adding 10 drops hot water and under toung it went for 15 minutes..

Starway7, I have noticed in all your experiments you are neglecting to "mash or knead" the DMT into the HPBCD. Using the end of a spoon to crush the HPBCD into the DMT for 2 minutes is the only way this will work. You cannot simply dissolve the grain alcohol and water drops together with the DMT and HPBCD and expect it to complex. The DMT has to be forced into the tornado cone with pressure, you must use your muscles! Keep up the good work, you will get there.

You also must use near boiling hot water drops from a nearby coffee cup, this is important, and no grain alcohol.

See study below, complex prepared by kneading and crushing, this is the exact same way Chemist and bodybuilder Patrick Arnold (owner of ERGOPHARM HPBCD complexed sports pro-hormones for sublingual & nasal use) taught how to do this back in the day on deja news groups before he started his own company that did very well for a good 10 years before pro-hormones were illegalized.

Patrick Arnold holds a 1999 patent on "Use of 4-androstenediol to increase testosterone levels in humans". Patrick was way ahead of his time, his 4-Androstenediol supplement converted into testosterone at a rate of 95% once it absorbed sublingually under tongue and entered the bloodstream, it was so popular to the point it all became illegal. Twisted Evil

Study below: HPBCD improves oral absorption profile for Ofloxacin, a second generation fluroquinolones by 54 to 89 percent.Thumbs up

This is also why HPBCD DMT dissolves many factors better than DMT salts for oral use with harmine and THH. I have run a dozen experiments with 70mg to 120mg DMT salts in the past, they were all only mild +3 Shulgin level experiences, while the 70mg HPBCD DMT was a +5 strong Shulgin level experience, very impressed with not only the strength, but it was "all encompassing" just like actual 30mg Hawaiian psychotria leaf = 3-d like honeycomb brown and orange neon geometrics on the walls (they bulged slightly off the surface), super strong high frequency body vibration felt for 1 hour, a fortress of neon color particles surrounded objects like a teleportation device, this same phenomena has happened before in the past, but only when I used actual 30 to 40g Hawaiian psychotria leaf, this same phenomena happened again with the 70mg HPBCD DMT, but never with the plain DMT salts, which were dissapointingly mild every time due to poor body absorption.

The above oral trip with 200mg harmine + 300mg THH + 70mg HPBCD DMT complex all mixed into 2oz very hot water tea, the HPBCD DMT turns 100% clear when it hits the hot water tea from off the spoon. All mixed and drank at exact same time, just as the Shaman's do.
ava69 attached the following image(s):
complex prepared by kneading and crushing.JPG (77kb) downloaded 420 time(s).
 
ava69
#106 Posted : 6/17/2021 3:02:55 PM

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https://earthmedicine201...of-the-serpent-of-eden/
hxxps://earthmedicine2015.wordpress.com/2016/01/29/return-of-the-serpent-of-eden/

Return of the Serpent & of Eden:
Quote:
There is no irony to the symbol of the Serpent as being a Divine Being in Earth-based indigenous cultures. To name a few, Ayahuasca (the vine medicine of the Amazon) is seen to be a Feminine power, revealed at times as the Boa or Great Serpent.

Likewise, the Nahua peoples of descended Mayans have the symbol of Snake Woman, a Feminine presence of healing and Creation. Quetzalcoatl, the winged serpent of Aztec origin, is said to have risen in this time, reflecting a shift in consciousness.

The Beauty Way, in North Indigenous lines, represents the path “closest to Mother Earth”, also symbolically represented by the Serpent. Countless indigenous American peoples (Holding the Root & Sacral Chakra of the Earth) view the snake as a symbol largely associated with the Feminine and of Power, be it healing, protection, or divination.

An example that is very personal to me is the example of Shihuahuaco (a tree) & Ayahuasca (a vine). As most trees are (except for example, Oje), Shihuahuaco is considered masculine in spirit & energy. Ayahuasca, a curvy & fluid vine, is feminine. Both are considered Plantas Maestras & one curandero (who works primarily with the Matsigenka people in Madre de Dios) told me that they are considered lovers.

He told me that one Matsigenka perspective is that Shihuaco is the king of the jungle, and Ayahuasca is the King. When observed with shamanic perspectives of Nature, Shihuaco (the tallest & strongest tree in the forest) allows for the curvy, fluid & feminine vine to reach to the heavens: the linear masculine supporting the circular feminine. Thus they are seen to be a complete couple.
ava69 attached the following image(s):
ancient quetzalcoatl.JPG (133kb) downloaded 377 time(s).
 
downwardsfromzero
#107 Posted : 6/17/2021 3:08:44 PM

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starway7 wrote:
quote...There are two compounds that are commonly referred to as "HPBCD". One is hydroxypropyl-beta-cyclodextrin (CAS #94035-02-06, molecular weight ~1375 grams/mol). The other is (2-hydroxypropyl)-beta-cyclodextrin (CAS #128446-35-5. Molecular weight ~1460 grams/mol).

The 2-HPBCD (CAS #128446-35-5) is cheap and commonly available, and that's the version we're using for our tests. I've only found HPBCD (CAS #94035-02-06) at chemical supply houses and it's more expensive.


two kinds of HPBCD? any real difference??

The difference is in the degree of substitution, i.e. the number of hydroxypropyl groups per cyclodextrin molecule. The approximate molecular weights mention above will be the average for the particular mixture of randomly substituted HPBCDs; thus MW 1375 corresponds with a mixture containing mostly tetrasubstituted BCD with a smaller proportion of the pentasubstituted derivative, while MW 1460 is mostly the hexasubstituted derivative with a smaller amount of the pentasubstituted compound.

Both of these products will also contain lesser amounts of more- and less-highly substituted BCD derivatives.

This might make a difference; it will likely only be subtle.

Quote:
Randomly substituted 2-hydroxypropyl-β-cyclodextrin is well tolerated in rats,
mice and dogs, particularly when administered orally. This cyclodextrin derivative
is also well tolerated in humans, with the main adverse effect being diarrhoea.
Moreover, intraperitoneal single dose of 10 g/kg in mice was neither lethal nor
produced any toxicity (Gould and Scott 2005).
When speaking about randomly substituted derivatives, it should be taken into
account there could be differences between derivatives with different degree of sub-
stitution (Li et al. 2016). Three randomly substituted 2-hydroxypropyl-β-2
cyclodextrin with degree of substitution 4.55, 6.16 and 7.76 were compared when
administered intravenously to rats once daily at a dose of 500 mg/kg for 7 days. It
was concluded cyclodextrin derivative with lower degree of substitution resulted in
more changes in hematological and biochemical parameters. However, the effects
were reversible at the end of recovery.

https://link.springer.co...7%2F978-3-319-76159-6_2

All-in-all, using the terms "hydroxypropyl-beta-cyclodextrin" versus "(2-hydroxypropyl)-beta-cyclodextrin" to distinguish between the two different products is somewhat lacking in rigour as they are very likely both (2-hydroxypropyl)-beta-cyclodextrin with varying degrees of substitution.

starway7 wrote:
I did do a couple other tests...transdermally...
I think transdermal use of HPBCD complexes deserves its own thread.

ava69 wrote:
Starway7, I have noticed in all your experiments you are neglecting to "mash or knead" the DMT into the HPBCD. Using the end of a spoon to crush the HPBCD into the DMT for 2 minutes is the only way this will work. You cannot simply dissolve the grain alcohol and water drops together with the DMT and HPBCD and expect it to complex. The DMT has to be forced into the tornado cone with pressure, you must use your muscles!
This is probably 'my fault' because of reporting a test using cornstarch and DMT tincture as that was the only form easily available. If using solid DMT there is no need to dissolve it in alcohol for HPBCD complexation.
Ora, lege, lege, lege, relege et labora

“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
starway7
#108 Posted : 6/17/2021 3:35:22 PM

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quoteava69 wrote:


Starway7, I have noticed in all your experiments you are neglecting to "mash or knead" the DMT into the HPBCD. Using the end of a spoon to crush the HPBCD into the DMT for 2 minutes is the only way this will work. You cannot simply dissolve the grain alcohol and water drops together with the DMT and HPBCD and expect it to complex. The DMT has to be forced into the tornado cone with pressure, you must use your muscles!...


Ok.... what i did was add an alcoholic tincture containing .. Spice.. into about 200mgs of .. 2HPBCD powder..and added 10 drops of hot water..and .... COMPLEATLY MIXED it!... ...in the table spoon...

I didnt know that PRESSING ..or CRUSHING..or kneading the mixture was any diferent from mixing it very compleatly?

And maybe it makes a difference using solid spice crystals verses spice tincture?

afterall...knowing that evaporation of the grain alcohol leaves behind a thick spice oil..isnt that solid spice also/

If crushing and kneading will make a big difference ill try it... thanks...



 
Voidmatrix
#109 Posted : 6/17/2021 4:07:51 PM

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Not kneading and only mixing may be my mistake as well...

Will report back soon.

One love
Question everything... including questioning everything...
There's so much I could be wrong about and have no idea...
The only safe place is the choice you make
All posts, responses, ideas and supposed experiences are that of an imaginary interdimensional being . This being comes to you with the proclivity and compulsion for delving in depths it shouldn't. That being said, everything posted must, perhaps, be taken lightly and with a grain of salt. 👽
 
ava69
#110 Posted : 6/17/2021 6:04:24 PM

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downwardsfromzero said:
Quote:
All-in-all, using the terms "hydroxypropyl-beta-cyclodextrin" versus "(2-hydroxypropyl)-beta-cyclodextrin" to distinguish between the two different products is somewhat lacking in rigour as they are very likely both (2-hydroxypropyl)-beta-cyclodextrin with varying degrees of substitution.

Glad you came to the same conclusion downwardsfromzero, have even seen chemical websites on-line refer to the two as "the same thing" they are so close. As mentioned above, I will use the 2-hydroxy PBCD on monday, June 28th to compare to the plain HPBCD, and report back.

starway7 said:
Quote:
If crushing and kneading will make a big difference ill try it... thanks...

voidmatrix said:
Quote:
Not kneading and only mixing may be my mistake as well...Will report back soon.

1) Glad to hear from both of you...Yes, it will make a huge difference, see the study on post #105, HPBCD improves oral absorption profile for Ofloxacin, a second generation fluroquinolones by 54 to 89 percent. This complex was made using kneading/crushing as mentioned by the scientist, same way chemist Patrick Arnold taught all the weight lifters to do it.

Just pretend you are a "human sewing machine" for 2 minutes, mashing and kneading the DMT into the HPBCD tornado cone using your muscles. Just stirring will not work. Please if you can, up your dose to 60mg DMT...nothing to fear and will result in a beautiful 3.5 Shulgin strength scale experience. This is where I was like "wow, now we have arrived."

2) And don't forget to use 10 drops near BOILING HOT WATER from a nearby coffee mug, use 10 drops if complexing 60mg DMT, or 12 drops if complexing 80mg DMT. You can still use 12 drops for 60mg DMT if you want.

p.s. If you haven't made a tea out of two 12" long 2.5" thick REAL san pedro, and visited your local waterpark for the morning/afternoon, you don't know what your missing! I been doing this for 6 years already, all summer long...the outdoors is beautiful beyond belief, like an outdoor fairytale fantasy land full of infinite beauty and colorful bikini's.

Cactus is so bad ass. It's very gentle while being profoundly beautiful...you can be tripping your brains out and yet have complete control of all your faculties...still have a normal conversation and nobody around you can even tell your tripping.

True story: don't feel bad for doing things differently or incorrectly, when I first started this, I didn't know that I was supposed to use a 1:1 molar ratio of DMT to HPBCD, I was blindly doing a 1:1 mg weight ratio of DMT to HPBCD, it was not until a guy who said this was all impossible, as if it were in his words "some kind of miracle new mode of administration" told me that I should at least be using a 1:1 molar ratio and not weight ratio for this to even work.

Sometimes, people who don't even believe in what you are doing will be of aid to your goal. Teamwork comes in all disguises. When we were at the beach for a week (post #97), the funniest guy in our group, a real comedian was accident prone wherever we went, sort of like Jack Tripper from Three's Company. At the beach waterpark, he decided to go down a kiddie slide, but opened his mouth and water poured into his throat at breakneck speed, he felt like he was karate chopped in the throat after the ride, but was fine.

Later, on the water rapids tube ride, at the very top, a lifeguard spun him around in his tube, and going down the falls, he bumped the back of his head on the smooth boulders lining the ride, his head hurt a bit, but again he came out just fine, then again later a souvenier rack almost took him out when he didn't see where he was walking.

All I'm saying is that alot of the time we have no control over what's happening, but there is a destiny and plan for all of us, we each have a gift in this upside down world.

One of the most beautiful things I enjoyed about the beach trip was the simple walk along the beach in the morning picking up sea shells and collecting them along with several buckets of sand I took home. I walked my dog and enjoyed the numerous sunflowers and other wild flowers under the boardwalk along the entire beach...and standing on end of rock pier watching the waves crash in...the easy, uncomplicated, effortless things in life can be the most profound. Smile

Pic: Pretend you are a human sewing machine crushing/kneading complex for 2 minutes using near boiling hot water from a nearby coffee mug.

Pics for guests: https://mycotopia.net/to...ally-under-tongue/page-3
ava69 attached the following image(s):
pretend you are a human sewing machine while crushing for 2 minutes using near boiling hot water.JPG (77kb) downloaded 356 time(s).
 
shroombee
#111 Posted : 6/17/2021 8:32:54 PM

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I've tried "kneading and crushing" as well as dissolving DMT in ethanol and then mixing into the HPBCD with drops of hot water. They're both about the same in effects for me - active but mild. I get much stronger effects from oral pharmahuasca using only 20 mg DMT (versus trying 40 mg with the sublingual tests). I have a "first-time pharmahuasca trip report" in the making...

I think the main issue for me is the mouthful of saliva. After spitting it out, there is a blob of HPBCD/DMT suspended in 20+ ml of saliva. Just looking at the leftover blob, I can't see how I was able to absorb much of the DMT. Perhaps if I could figure out a proper technique, I would get better results from sublingual ROA.

For now I'll continue working with oral pharmahuasca as it's simpler, works better, and uses less DMT with my personal physiology.
 
Voidmatrix
#112 Posted : 6/17/2021 9:03:45 PM

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shroombee wrote:
I've tried "kneading and crushing" as well as dissolving DMT in ethanol and then mixing into the HPBCD with drops of hot water. They're both about the same in effects for me - active but mild. I get much stronger effects from oral pharmahuasca using only 20 mg DMT (versus trying 40 mg with the sublingual tests). I have a "first-time pharmahuasca trip report" in the making...

I think the main issue for me is the mouthful of saliva. After spitting it out, there is a blob of HPBCD/DMT suspended in 20+ ml of saliva. Just looking at the leftover blob, I can't see how I was able to absorb much of the DMT. Perhaps if I could figure out a proper technique, I would get better results from sublingual ROA.

For now I'll continue working with oral pharmahuasca as it's simpler, works better, and uses less DMT with my personal physiology.


You highlight a few things I deal with as well. I've observed the mass of saliva after spitting it out and always notice a little bit of DMT. I also find myself wondering how it can all be absorbed by that mucus membrane with so much saliva building up. I feel like it gets suspended in the saliva too much and thus is harder to absorb. My mouth is full by the time I spit it out.

One love
Question everything... including questioning everything...
There's so much I could be wrong about and have no idea...
The only safe place is the choice you make
All posts, responses, ideas and supposed experiences are that of an imaginary interdimensional being . This being comes to you with the proclivity and compulsion for delving in depths it shouldn't. That being said, everything posted must, perhaps, be taken lightly and with a grain of salt. 👽
 
ava69
#113 Posted : 6/18/2021 2:27:31 PM

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I look forward to hearing your pharmahuasca report shroombee.

I have no issues with sting, perhaps once you knead it in future, you will find it more tolerable Voidmatrix, as all of the DMT will be encapsulated in the tornado shell.

I have used this stuff sublingually (if you count the number of times I re-dosed in an evening) around 18 times in 2.5 month period, each time it is just as strong as an oral dose, in other words 80mg HPBCD DMT sublingual is just as strong as 80mg HPBCD DMT used orally with 200mg harmine + 150mg to 300mg THH all mixed together in a 2oz very hot water tea...no difference in strength. Use 100mg of crushed vit C to make the harmalas absorb into the hot water tea if they are in freebase form. Drink all mixed together into the hot water tea at the exact same time, just as Shaman's do for the highest strength.

The cool thing is that the HPBCD DMT turns 100% clear once you dunk the spoon full of it into the 2oz very hot water tea for oral use.

I may be an oddball, but I prefer the sublingual route as I can re-dose every 1.5 hour without having to take additional 200mg harmine, I re-dose x 2 more times during night, so if you were to count the number of times I would have had to take 200mg of harmine during the evening, it adds up to 200mg + 200mg + 200mg = 600mg harmine. I'm not a big fan of harmine dosed more than once, so the sublingual HPBCD DMT works out great for me, taking only 300mg THH x once early on (45 minutes before) as it has a half-life of 10.5 hours.

As mentioned before, I like trips that resemble mescaline, I like long trips at least strong 5 hours, so by re-dosing the sublingual HPBCD DMT every 1.5 hours, I get the same style trip for dirt cheap, in fact 300mg THH + 80mg HPBCD DMT x redose x two more times gives me 5 hour strong trip (with long afterglow) that feels identical to 600mg of mescaline in every possible way, beautiful beyond belief...I like to listen to music for most of the evening, and this gives the opportunity to experience it for 5 hours in bad ass incredible heavenly quality, with all filters or barriers broken down.

Procedure: 300mg tetrahydroharmine (use from 150mg to 300mg) taken 45 minutes before orally + 80mg DMT complexed to 560mg HPBCD, use 640mg if using the 2-hydroxy propyl beta cyclodextrin using 12 drops very hot water from a nearby coffee mug all mashed together for 2 minutes on a spoon, using the end of another spoon to mash & knead it all together.

Then taken sublingually by placing bottom of tongue on to spoon, it will all adhere to bottom of tongue...hold for 15 minutes under tongue in the sublingual mucosa, then spit out any saliva (but not what's under your tongue), continue to hold any residue under tongue for 10 more minutes, never release your tongue the whole 25 minutes...press down hard with tongue the whole time to trap complex in the sublingual mucosa. 22 minutes after you begin all of this, you will go from sober to full throttle, a level 5 experience for 90 minutes, then you can re-dose by two more times every 1.5 hour in order to trip heavy all night.

We are experiencing record breaking HEAT and mega-droughts which are drying up lakes and reservoirs, the planet is in the midst of climate change, see post #53 on why Ayahuasca, Queen of the Forest, is serious about this problem. The amazon rain forest (lungs of the earth) is being slashed and burned by the miles per day, making room for corporation run soybean plantations and cattle ranches for hamburgers. I don't know about you but I don't use soybeans for anything and I don't eat steaks or hamburgers...I eat fish, chicken and turkey daily to stay lean as a bodybuilder.

Speaking of corporate mentality, the corporation (air-conditioned ant-hill) I work for decided to hand out raises, but only to a select few and not everyone across the board, sadly I was not part of the privileged bunch. Does it matter that that I do the work of 3 people? As the forest is burned, will your lungs be privileged to the oxygen the trees used to convert from carbon dioxide? The Amazon also controls the rain amounts that fall globally. But the Amazon is no longer controlled by the natives, but the corporations with the subsidies they pay to the locals to do their bidding.

Pic1: Ayahuasca, Queen of the Forest
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downwardsfromzero
#114 Posted : 6/18/2021 5:10:01 PM

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Picking up on your very important tangent - yes, it sickens me to see south American beef advertised for sale in shops and supermarkets over here in Europe. Have people learnt nothing?


I think some of us - myself included - might only stand a chance of success with the sublingual HPBCD route if we look into ways of reducing our salivary output. If there are any things beside the two obvious ones - tropanes and cannabis, both of which I consider to have too many negative downsides - I'd love to hear the suggestions.
Ora, lege, lege, lege, relege et labora

“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
dragonrider
#115 Posted : 6/18/2021 7:45:39 PM

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downwardsfromzero wrote:
Picking up on your very important tangent - yes, it sickens me to see south American beef advertised for sale in shops and supermarkets over here in Europe. Have people learnt nothing?

Some people still believe climate change is all a hoax and/or fake news.
 
downwardsfromzero
#116 Posted : 6/19/2021 6:31:30 AM

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dragonrider wrote:
downwardsfromzero wrote:
Picking up on your very important tangent - yes, it sickens me to see south American beef advertised for sale in shops and supermarkets over here in Europe. Have people learnt nothing?

Some people still believe climate change is all a hoax and/or fake news.

And that in the face of insane outbursts of Saharan hot air over Europe, tornado and flash flood warnings, June temperature records being broken, temperatures in Germany 4°C above the average for the whole of June already by the 18th... and yet people are supposedly yearning for a "return to normal" after Covid. My small town swarms with cars every weekday daytime and pricks in sports cars disrupt the peace of the evening. I'm kind of praying for a tornado to wake these ducking fickheads up.
Ora, lege, lege, lege, relege et labora

“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
dragonrider
#117 Posted : 6/19/2021 3:12:44 PM

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downwardsfromzero wrote:
dragonrider wrote:
downwardsfromzero wrote:
Picking up on your very important tangent - yes, it sickens me to see south American beef advertised for sale in shops and supermarkets over here in Europe. Have people learnt nothing?

Some people still believe climate change is all a hoax and/or fake news.

And that in the face of insane outbursts of Saharan hot air over Europe, tornado and flash flood warnings, June temperature records being broken, temperatures in Germany 4°C above the average for the whole of June already by the 18th... and yet people are supposedly yearning for a "return to normal" after Covid. My small town swarms with cars every weekday daytime and pricks in sports cars disrupt the peace of the evening. I'm kind of praying for a tornado to wake these ducking fickheads up.

I think it's a form of apathy. Maybe the worst of all the human vices.
 
ava69
#118 Posted : 6/19/2021 4:00:51 PM

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downwardsfromzero said:
Quote:
Picking up on your very important tangent - yes, it sickens me to see south American beef advertised for sale in shops and supermarkets over here in Europe. Have people learnt nothing?

And that in the face of insane outbursts of Saharan hot air over Europe, tornado and flash flood warnings, June temperature records being broken, temperatures in Germany 4°C above the average for the whole of June already by the 18th... and yet people are supposedly yearning for a "return to normal" after Covid. My small town swarms with cars every weekday daytime and pricks in sports cars disrupt the peace of the evening. I'm kind of praying for a tornado to wake these ducking fickheads up.

I think some of us - myself included - might only stand a chance of success with the sublingual HPBCD route if we look into ways of reducing our salivary output. If there are any things beside the two obvious ones - tropanes and cannabis, both of which I consider to have too many negative downsides - I'd love to hear the suggestions.

dragonrider said:
Quote:
Some people still believe climate change is all a hoax and/or fake news. I think it's a form of apathy. Maybe the worst of all the human vices.

Thanks for comments on climate change, really like reading....as far as the saliva buildup, here is my personal suggestion:

I did an experiment yesterday, taking 300mg THH 45 minutes before orally, then 80mg DMT complexed to 560mg plain HPBCD in 12 drops near boiling hot water, mashed and kneaded for 2 minutes really well on spoon using end of another spoon to scrape, mix and mash it all together with muscles, then placed bottom of tongue on spoon, it all adhered to bottom of tongue as usual...I find if you knead it really well, that the sting is tolerable.

I always dry the bottom side of my tongue and top of mucosa membrane with a tissue before I do this.

I kept it under tongue trapped in the sublingual mucosa by pressing down with tongue really hard, I spit out any saliva around 10 minutes later, but kept any residual amount still trapped under tongue, once any saliva builds up to where it is uncomfortable, just spit out but continue to keep tongue pressed down while you do this, try to keep any residual amount trapped under tongue for a good 20 minutes total, I find it all dissolves...I was flying so high level 5 strength for a good 1 and 1/2 hour, having the time of my life, and re-dosed every 1.5 hour, doing the same...it was an incredible experience, enjoyed movies and music all night, again this all felt like 600mg of mescaline, beautiful beyond belief. Wonderful strong open eyed and closed eye visuals for 4.5 hours, splashes of neon color again washed across the walls, movies and music so infinitely beautiful.

There was even a time weeks ago when I had a tolerance, took 300mg THH 45 minutes earlier as normal, but did 110mg DMT complexed to 770mg HPBCD to overcome the tolerance, with 2 extra re-doses every 1.5 hour, and it all dissolved in 15 minutes with tongue pressed down hard, just spit out any saliva when it comes becomes uncomfortable (10 to 15 minutes or so), but continue to keep tongue pressed down while tilting head forward & pouring out the saliva gently from mouth, continue to hold any residue under tongue in case there is any left for an extra 10 minutes, for 20 minutes total beginning to end. It takes a bit of practice, but the 110mg was mind-blowing with intricate geometrics filling the walls alternating between splashes of neon color, just like with cactus tea, actresses on-screen looked like dazzling glowing super-colorful cartoon versions of themselves, so beautifully profound, music heavenly for hours on end.

Anytime I do this, I always take antioxidants: 300mg +R-ALA, 1000mg vitamin C, vitamin E, and drink extra water. I also take 3 to 4 caps of fish oil daily and 1 cup of 3 berry blend in my protein shake, super antioxidant power and the fish oil keeps depression far, far away...good mood with fish oil, chocolate & sunlight daily.

Pic: the ruins
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ava69
#119 Posted : 6/24/2021 9:14:42 PM

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Soon, June 28th, monday...will try out the 2-hydroxy PBCD for 1st time, will edit & post results here. My, how the price has risen, this tiny bottle of 2-hydroxy PBCD cost the same this day and age as 1kg of HPBCD bought long ago, when pro-hormones were still legal. 50 grams (50,000mg) 2-hydroxy PBCD = same cost as 1kg (1,000,000 mg) HPBCD, a price increase of 20x. Shocked
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VibeSurfer
#120 Posted : 6/24/2021 9:40:25 PM

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Thanks for putting all this together! I look forward to giving it a shot. Does anyone know if DMT fumarate could also be used or if it must be freebase?
"It was altruism, not violence or force, which associated our higher cortex. Our intent is to awaken that memory." - Indigo
 
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