It would be a good idea to have such data gathered so it would be easily accesable to everyone.

A good start for such a databas would be, if people posted link's to scientific studies....right here!

Ofcourse it would have to be good genuinely scientific data instead of stonerpropaganda, since that would implicitly confirm the opposite.

you can find a lot of them here:

http://www.dmt-nexus.me/....aspx?g=posts&t=1441

No drug is harmless.

At least entheogens have the power to heal, awaken, strengthen, and open.

I don't think our goal should be to paint psychedelics as harmless; they're not. There are plenty of people who should not be taking psychedelics for a myriad of reasons. What we need to focus on is the legitimate use of entheogens for educational and personal exploration. This is going to butt up right into the libertarian view of it's my body to do with as I please (so long as I'm not harming society). There is plenty of evidence along those lines that will and does strengthen our position. With marijuana currently becoming an accepted medicinal treatment in a growing number of states as well as a recreational herb in others, we appear to be setting the stage to make the same well-reasoned and thought out arguments for the psychedelics.

We KNOW what these plants can do. The problem is so do the politicians. It's an easy point to score by being "tough on drugs" ESPECIALLY when those drugs are not well known by the general population. Don't believe me? Look at how cannabis lies have deteriorated in the face of an increasingly well informed public. Additionally, the great, mysterious THEY understand that psychedelics are a catalyst for change. This change will NOT benefit them. As such, they have no reason whatsoever to stick up for our use. This is not a public health issue and has never been (although it should be). This is a power and mind-control battle. The general populace has no interest in exploring what makes reality tick and so they blindly swallow the lies they are fed by the government. Education is the key here.

Everyone can, and should, in their own lives, as much as possible, strive to be a beacon of knowledge and information on these plants. I know it puts us at odds with the rest of society, especially given the taboos that exist. But if we don't do it, who will? This is OUR burden to bear, and bear it we must. Believe me when I say that I have spent a good portion of my collegiate career getting wide eyed and shocked stares from my classmates (classdrones?) as I broach the topics of entheogens and medicinal/psychoactive plants. My professors have shown varied levels of interest, but at the very least, have been open to hearing what I have to say. This knowledge can and should be disseminated in every venue possible. DO NOT allow the ignorant to take the floor and bully the sheep around you into false belief and fear. It's hard being on the fringe, being right when society is wrong, being psychedelic when the culture is materialistic, but we are who we are, and that is who we must be.

sorry, I don't have any actual articles to add at this time, if this rant needs to be moved to a different thread that's cool too. I'm gonna see what I have lurkin on the old HD when I get home and upload anything relevant.

SB

Mystical experiences with mushrooms after 14 months - Journal of Psychopharmacology (200
Navajo Peyote Use: Its Apparent Safety - The American Journal of Psychiatry (1971)
Peyote in the treatment of alcoholism - The American Journal of Psychiatry (1974)

These were just three I found in a hurry... Take a look at the articles here on the Nexus, you will find some good ones there.

Oh, and... Entheogens are NOT harmless. No substance affecting our body chemistry is harmless. We should never, ever take that stand.

To my regret i must admit that, indeed i used the wrong words.

What i meant was ofcourse 'relatively harmless' instead of 'totally harmless'.

Altough i do believe that mushrooms, mescaline, ayahuasca and LSD for instance don't cause any physical harm in the sense of tissue damage or something like that if taken in normal amounts (maybe a gram of LSD will burn a hole in your liver or something, but stretching health claims of any substance's safety to infinite amounts is unreasonable).

Anyway.

I think that scientific data are of crucial importance in the batle for liberalisation.

-Scientific data will show that 'horror story's as spread by prohibitionists, as i will call them, are untrue, based on pseudo-science, simply made-up or based on (deliberate?) misinterpretations of scientific studies.
The main argument for prohibition is often the clain that a certain substance is very dangerous or harmfull.
-Scientific data will also show that psychedelic's can be beneficial in many way's. It will show their therapeutic value. Especially a substance like ibogaine, wich isn't used in any other than therapeutic context anyway, it's not a partydrug, will show to have a great value in that field.
-Science will show that many psychedelic's have no proven negative health effects if taken in normal amounts.
-Science will also show that some substances like ayahuasca and peyote, overall have positive psychological effects if taken in a ritual context.
-science will bring story's about people jumoing from tall buildings, back to their right proportion. The risk for psychologically healthy and stable individuals of suddenly doing something like that is nihill. Especially if compared to the effects alcohol has on behaviour.
Not only are people on psychedelic's less likely to behave eratic than people under the influence of alcohol, but people on psychedelic's also realize better that they are under the influence of a powerfull substance;I think that someone under the influence of mushrooms is less likely going to drive a car than someone who jus drunk a couple of beers.

But to sum it up: I think we have the truth on our side. The truth is our most powerfull argument in this battle.
The more the truth is known, the more the balance will shift in our favour.
Therefore as many people as possible should know the truth and therefore, the true facts should be easily accesable.

If they're hidden away somewhere in a scientific journal hardly anybody reads, they are less likely to have an effect than if the facts (with proper references)circulate around on the internet on forums like these.

"With marijuana currently becoming an accepted medicinal treatment in a growing number of states as well as a recreational herb in others, we appear to be setting the stage to make the same well-reasoned and thought out arguments for the psychedelics"

Trully, i think that hole argument is bullshit, why would something have to have medical purpose to be legal to use? Take alcohol for example, it has medical use, so its legal even though i can cause a person serious trouble if the abuse drinking, does the government care? No, its still leagal.....though it should be. Do they care that you smoke MJ and get high.....no they don't, but they do care that they can get away with making it illegal, but for what purpose compaired to alcohol? Not healt or medical purpose. Its for war on drugs, which earns them money, see....the governments get to secretly ship in drugs, or allow it at a fee then turn around and bust people for having them, drug fines can be quite expensive. Then they turn around and sell it to get it back on the streets so they can again bust and charge people. Want drugs to be leagal and to have a equal right to live? YOur shit out of luck until the money problem is solved, if ever. But greed of money is why drugs are illegal.


Or enough people get outraged and force it to be legal, but that want happen, the main word is drugs are bad, and they can be, but they can be good also, like everything ya know. There may be hope, but most of the people will have to want it to be legal to force government to do so. Government wants to rule, by having war on drugs they get to say...hey...we need to be bigger to fight drugs, lets expand government. Government is not a help of people, its a ruller, the enemy.

Whether there is a conspiracy or not i don't know.

But to keep drugs illegal they use the argument that: you will go insane, become an addict, will become a violent criminal, your health will suffer at the cost of our allready too expensive healthcare system, etc.

So they may have a different reason for prohibition, than all the health claims, but they succeed because of them.

These lies about psychedelic's ENABLE politicians to keep them prohibited.

Shure, they fear psychedelic for whole different reasons than they say. But it will always be a lot harder to prove what someone secretly is thinking since thoughts leave no empirical evidence like fingerprints.

But they can get away with it, because of the lack of knowledge of the facts as they are, by the public.
If the public knows that you won't become a violent rapist from DMT, than all they have is their secret motives. And you don't win elections with them.

You win elections with lies.

For us the job, to reveal them as such.

Cheeto, it's not about rational or sensical, it's about approaching this whole thing in a manner that will make it relate to all those uninterested people who generally dont give a fuck about entheogens and thus can be counted on to be misinformed and coerced into helping to keep them illegal. If someone has personal experience with mushrooms easing their grandparent's or parent's suffering when presented with a terminal illness, THIS is how you get converts to our cause. When people see how things can benefit them in their own personal life THEN and only then are they willing to advocate or even stick up for them.

And "greed of money" is only a tiny fraction of the reason drugs are illegal, as legalizing will produce infinitely more drug-based revenue. I'm so sick of hearing this argument, its stupid, flawed, and just plain wrong. It has more to do with modern day slave labor through the prison industrial complex (the #1 most profitable American industry) which in part, as a result of the war on drugs locks up a completely disproportionate number of minorities and then uses essentially free slave-labor to take labor contracts form legitimate businesses. And even that's only one facet of the whole shebang.

Well said polytrip, i agree with all of that. The truth is on our side and that was another parallel with marijuana prohibition and again, I would say that as with marijuana prohibition, the first step is to inform the public as to what it is and what it does. When people understand the actual effects of a substance, they can begin to see that it is not the demon it was made out to be. We have the greatest ally in legal alcohol and tobacco which have been empirically shown to be far more hazardous than any entheogen.

Value should always be determined by an in-depth analysis of cost and benefit, and for psychedelics, the benefit almost always outweighs the cost by and large. Sometimes, the cost even contributes to the benefit. This should be applied drugs as well as foods and fuels and practically everything else. If these simple principals were applied to most things and updated with some level of frequency, society would function much more smoothly.

Nothing is without cost, and it's the realization of this that allows our community to understand the importance of responsibility of practice and sincerity of intent in the use of entheogens. Perhaps the focus should be on the low toxicology of psychedelics compared to most pharmaceuticals?

Yeah. Things like that.

The cases that best prove they are harmless are studies done on indigenous religious groups that use entheogens on a regular basis. There is a huge amount of stuff to draw from there. And with the recent legalization of ayahuasca in Brazil, we have fresh information to add to this pool of information.

no doubt go for it, try to get them legal, i'm all for freedom of choice, whatever method used to get it, but freedom of choice as long as not harming or costing others is what needs to be took into consideration.

But greed of money is not a stupid argument, its not the only one either, but it is a big one. Saying they will profit more off drugs if there leagel is flawed speculation to me. Take MJ for example, if they make it legal, people aren't gonna want to hear....you can smoke it, but only buy it from us, you cannot grow your own. They know that, they make a ton of money busting people for MJ, they even get donations to fund the drug war on MJ, they have there own commercials, its a profitable buisness. If its legal and everyone can grow it, they will not make anything off of it, because then anyone can safely grow MJ and sell it to others and undercut them, they would be out of the loop alltogether. To them, thats just alot of money not comming in anymore. Drugs fund police also.


Its hard to say with freedom of choice though, because its fact that most people are idiots, if left alone with no controll everything goes crazy. People will breed themselves out of resources and still spit out kids like crazy and then complain because there is not enough food to go around, i've seen this show on tv....18 kids and still going, fucking idiots. Scientists estimate we have enough resources to get us 50 more years, i think i understand chinas lwas now, because people are idiots and don't think ahead.

I got off beat.....o well. Educating people about drugs is all good to me, education seems to be the big concearn, lots of people need to be educated on making smart choices with focus on the future, and realizing that humanity is more than you, your job and entertainment.



Thats why i don't understand why education is so slack, if there is no conspiracy, why has education gone down since the 50's? I went to school...i saw a lack of education, kids aren't learning because there not being taught. I learned how to ADD and subtract small numbers from 2nd grade to 8th grade.....most the year in my 8th grade math was learning to add and subtract????? Im only 27, my grandpa had more advanced math at the same age as me.

i just wanted to talk though....good luck with your attempts to educate people on drugs, i hope for the best.

I know an addition people need to see....
Intelligent People Who Do Drugs Yet Live A Healthy And Responsible Life Foundation.