I've been reading reports now, my experience was pretty much this. I had to stop reading, it was terrifying, it gave me chills. I'm having nightmares and every now and then, the terror just comes back and overwhelms me. I can't remember much of what exactly happened, but I wake up because I'm completely reliving it. The feedback loop she speaks of. It was a series of emotions, sensations, events, visions, terrifying and painful. I'm awake right now because I'm afraid that I'll go back again in my sleep. It's much more vivid than my memory of it now, when I'm asleep. It's very real, just as it was when I was awake.

I felt like it would never end, and that what I was experiencing actually WAS the end of the universe, and that it was stuck in this loop. Like I wanted it to end, I wanted death, I didn't think there was an alternative. Then I realized that it wouldn't end and I didn't want to accept it so I tried to fight it, then I went back into the loop. Terrible alien sensations, liquids pouring from my body, all types of vertigo, I can't even describe or remember what I saw. The only logical explanation of any kind I can come up with would be.....synesthesia.

I was completely lucid when I was first transported into this room. I was slightly scared but I wasn't terrified. Then I grew frightened and the visuals changed and the pain and everything else came and the loop, that haunting loop that I was stuck in that's giving me goosebumps right now just thinking about it. Maybe it was synesthesia effects, the fear was visually transformed, then I started moving about and hurt myself and the pain transformed into a different physical sensation that transformed into a different visual and so on, and that's not even taking into account the different sounds. I dumped a few drinks, I came into contact with liquids, I knocked over so many things made of so many different materials. It's like the feeling that "I'm going to fight this and not let this happen" sent me to where I began.

Have you ever been stuck in a loop?

Sublingual 5-MeO-DMT does this to SWIM if he takes a little bit too much. He hears sounds looping, thought looping, and images in his head start to loop. It is really freaky.

u la la la !
the great 69ron has respect for a substance.
I just can't believe this.
I think my happy octopus has to try out this suspect meo-dmt some day....

I can't imagine something more horrible. Got not much experience with loops. Only had one once..a thought looped and I nearly freaked out because it was so strange not beeing able to control the thought process.

Whatever, this is nothing like what you described. Have you thought about trying to work it out with a good dose of aya ?

SWIM took a huge hit. Anywhere from 70-120mg's, stupid stupid stupid. SWIM wasn't thinking about just how much spice was in that puddle of oil in the pipe, considering his first hit was small and his parter couldn't smoke it properly. SWIM is trying to rationalize this experience, and understand scientifically how this effect could possibly happen. It was intense, very specific as it went through each part of the sequence, it repeated the same way each time. It's like he felt that this had happened, realized that it has happened, and that the realization had already happened as well, that all of this had happened before, then he wanted to fight it, and realized it was pointless, that nothing could be done about it, but he didn't want to accept this, so he tried to fight it, and it started over. The reality meltdown, feeling like he was destroying everything, most importantly and disturbingly, his wife. He felt like some how he was doing worse than killing her, he was killing her in a way that would never end. He could feel what can only be described as violently binding to her, then a feeling like pouring liquid into another liquid. She was even making terrible gurgling sounds when this happened. What topped it off and made it worse(or perhaps invented this event to begin with), was that he freaked out a bit and was knocking things over. His wife wasn't thinking clearly, and instinctively said "stop stop stop stop! NAME stop!", oh boy.

AH, I shouldn't say "it was the exact same every time", because eventually after what seemed forever, it started to change slightly. Then it eventually started gaining new events. He assumes he reached his peak and as he came down, more events were coming into the swirl until it was complete nothingness and total loss of self awareness, followed by rebirth.

SWIM is having trouble understanding this scientifically. SWIM understands how spice enters the brain, but he can't find an explanation as to what actions it has when it gets there. I know some of you believe that it's all real, and I completely understand how a person can come to that conclusion. Do any of you have a link or know some good information about HOW people have these experiences? And just how can things loop like that?

You are really a fool.
Just imagine, there is a regret-worth man, who lost a beloved person, because this person died.
Just imagine, this fool would seek comfort in reading a scientific book, which analyses the chemical, organic mechanisms, which happens, while a biological organism dies.
Ridicules!!!
The fool can never integrate loss and mourning in this way!
You, my dearest friend, made an overwhelming, existentially experience too.
Don’t try to understand the material processes, which happen while tripping!
These efforts will not help you at all.
Don’t be a fool.

And don’t smoke spice, if you are not ready to place your hat and jacket at the receipt desk before entering the magical theatre, called hyperspace. You can enter, but only your “inner core” can do so (your inner core is that thing, that only you can designate with the word “I”), your body, your thoughts, your understood, your remembered past, all this things have to stay outside! You behave like a fool, if you enter the theatre and wine and complain during the whole stage performance, that your beloved hat and jacket had to stay outside, instead to enjoy and learn from the performance….
You are a real regret-worth fool, man!

Hey man, I'm being nice. I said that I can completely understand that some people think it's real, and still you say I'm a fool for thinking that it isn't. That's ALL I'm saying about the topic, rather than getting into a pointless debate comparable to two men arguing about the existence of god. I don't think you're a fool for believing.

Understand, that SWIM was feeling real physical pain, of course he wanted it to stop. Little did he know that his body was thrashing about. SWIM has cuts, bruises, a 32 inch tube television fell on top of him and hit him in the back of his head, leaving a huge golf ball sized knot. SWIM pulled a small shard of glass from his ankle 3 days later, he still didn't knowingly break anything glass. Understand, that there's a huge difference between being launched into hyperspace and being stuck in an infinite sensory feedback loop full of pain and terror. SWIM thinks he may have gotten too much all at once, perhaps enough 5-meo, or maybe some n-oxide. Mimossa Tenuiflora isn't supposed to contain 5-meo as far as I know, but maybe it's a different strand or perhaps this plant had a different diet, there are many variables.

I'm beginning to think that DMT isn't involved with dreaming at all. We have inner monologue, creativity, we plan our actions. This is something happening that's separate from our senses in a way, it interacts with them, yes. Why would our body need to interrupt this process in order for us to dream? The senses some what shut off during sleep, but that inner monologue, creativity planning part stays awake. Why would our body dump antagonists into our body to mess things up? People are creative all the time, imaginative, spiritual.

Hey ... no matter what attitude you get here, it's all likely to be usefull fodder for you to process - to consider your limitations, and/or see other people's limitations. .. we don't know you really, so we can only relate from within ourselves, as we are.

But what's real is that it is your brain on a dose of dmt - relax that ego's way of clinging to duality, and 'slip' .. your there !

Stop thinking, stop clinging, stop fear ... and die already - one encouraging suggestion.. !

It's the dose X your ego and psyche ... There's a dense part of your psyche that needs to loosen up ..?

I found it's like you left the mooring ropes still attached to the launch-pad when they fired the rockets on the space shuttle at take-off - it tears you up !. Loosen all ropes before launching !

Words .. thoughts .. dogma .. numerical and statistical comparisons ... STOP it all ! that is a dualistic illusory way of seeing and being that we all fall into. Theories of Dmt and dreams and death is as thought-bound as anything - stop believeing for a bit maybe..!

We are ALL conditioned to live in a world that laminates dualistic meaning onto every sensation and thought. Language is a laminating layer that contaminates ... stop the languagification of experience ... One-ness is silent... so try to meditate the thought and senstaions to a quiet hum - find a way to stoop thinking .. ..... then see if you feel like a hit of dmt ..


re the tape-loop thing, if I know anything like that it's on phramahuasca - the filter comes off and one thought has 1000 echoing thoughts, all fractally connected almost exactly the same. Even senses gave me tape-loop like effects where one taste of water made me 'taste' 1000 sweet flavours ... It's as though the dmt has allowed the ricocheting and repeating of thoughts and mental processes to go on and on .. filterless. ... it is scary, but ride it out, and if needed have your guide say easy, calming mantras to you. I was once talking to myself to bring me back to a tape-loopless-place.

In case the tape-loopiness happens with thoughts, try to overwhelm your senses more - make tape-loop of sensations or sound with good music for eg ... Or, from experience I have learned to prepare a deep bathtub of warm water for teh mid-trip phase. It's a quick calming place to be in ... Warm water actually works wonders to take the mind that is 'stuck' on though echos to a place where sensation replaces thought - the delight of warm water covering you, echoing 1000 times wipes away all other 'echos'.

If when you are not high, the ego is still replaying the movie-strips it clings with ... go outside and see nature - talk to mother Earth... maybe that'lrll help the current angst you are experiencing..?

Every shamanic practice of entering teh 'spirit world' ( ie alternate dimensions that we are connectd to...) describes the requirement of first having to experience the anihilating, mutilating, shredding, piercing to pieces, of the EGO ... it's not pretty so to speak, especially the first time. Teenage initiation rituals got you ready for this 'death' ... not as nice as it can be with a bong and some spice. Just don't cling, and try a lower dose, in a different setting

Watch this again !@

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwyuQbIb0Xs


try smoking 30 mg dmt after drinking some syrian rue seed (2-3g) extract - This works much genteler and the 'wall paper' of the ego is already all loose and peeled back from the maois in the Rue seed. ...

It can be really freaky.

Once on sublingual 5-MeO-DMT SWIM started hearing sounds looping over and over in his head and then he saw a vision of a skeleton with an infinite amount of eyes that stretched from one end of the universe to the other. The skeleton’s head was wider than the mind’s eye could see. It’s eyes were all the same, merely replications of his first two eyes. It was a horizontal visual loop. How the mind’s eye can see something so impossible as that is beyond me. During the peak SWIM was a little worried that maybe he damaged his brain. During the peak of that trip, SWIM’s mind became a square, all of SWIM’s thoughts became squares, and even his emotions were felt as if they were squares. Lines and right angles, that’s all SWIM could experience. It was utterly impossible to behold. How is it that an emotion can become a square? It was as if all of SWIM’s mind was short circuited and going bonkers. It was really freaky...but fascinating at the same time.

5-MeO-DMT can really be a trip to the circus

If it is, it's just one minor player. It's too alien to be the only force at play. The harmala alkaloids are more in line with what I believe are dream inducers. SWIM has had some fantastic dreams after taking pure harmine and then falling asleep during the peak effects. With harmine, you can fall asleep, and instantly start dreaming. You can't do that with DMT. But if you mix a little DMT in with the harmine, not enough to trip, then the dreams become more realistic. But if you over do the DMT you can't fall asleep.

I sure hope we can all be as wise and all-knowing as gosvami some day!!

WS

My friend reported me that he think knowing exactly what you experienced.

Few months ago he took a strong dose (smoked) and during what seemed an eternity, beeing a pure spirit in another dimension he thought/felt that the universe ended up and that it was his fault He thought something like "fuck, what did I do !? I screwed up the reality, everything is to be done again, I lose all, beloved people...".

To date he still try to give some sense to that experience. His logical mind say that in a certain way, the end of the 'reality datas' during the experience (the 5 senses, the logical mind...) IS a end of the universe. More recently something similar happened, he felt that the universe would soon COLLAPSE, everybody would return to 'the source' at the same time. There was no indication about when this would happen but it would be imminent. However this was not scaring at all that time, it was see as a feast, the end of a great game, ready to start a new one ?

So it seems that this kind of experience may be a common trait of DMT trips. But indeed, rational attempt to explain them failed or are not satisfying.

I think this looping, is something the brain does all the time and that it is even an essential part of it's functioning. I also think that serotonin normally diminishes this looping, that it's like a sort of loop-filter. Not only do substances that temporarilly supress serotonergic activity, like LSD,DMT,Psilocybin, causse these loop-sensations, but one of the symptoms of serotonin shortage is obsessive compulsive dissorder. People who have this seem to be in a constant loop having to wash their hands constantly, or have to check whether they've put out the gas or locked the door, etc.
I have had such a loop experience only once with acid, and i can imagine that with DMT it's much worse.
Not only did everything seem to repeat itself endlessly, but also everything i did to escape, i seemed to have done before..deja-vu.
That last thing was the most frightening aspect of it. Being caught in something that's inescapeable. Panic. Maybe the only time in my life i really felt panic and the mercyless grip it can have on your soul. I got out of it, though. It took me, maybe two hours, but i managed to convince myself that i would come out if this thing and that it wasn't real. That's the only advice i can give on this; you got out of it, so you don't have to be afraid that it'l happen again because you KNOW that when it would, that you will come out of it.

That's what SWIM is freaked out about. How can your body feel as if it is liquid being poured into another liquid, how can you have an emotion feel as if it's pouring from your face? SWIM believes that spice crosses all of your wires, and sends the wrong signals to the wrong receptors. This is the basic idea of synesthesia. He also believes that it competes with these receptors as well, and in return the information is collected in fragments, so the mind does what it always does in these situations, it fills in the blanks. This is an explanation as to why people see things "out of the corner of their eyes", and why people only remember the important details in situations, because your mind also in a way blocks out the useless things. That's why one can become so focused with an activity and then before they even notice, it's dark outside. But when your mind fills in the blanks, it's not always perfect. Sometimes you'll remember a person was wearing a blue shirt but they were actually wearing a red shirt, just an example. So when your mind is filling in the blanks for these impossible signals, it tries to make them something that is possible. SWIM guesses that while in a loop, the mind attempts to process an event which sends receptors that created the event to begin with and it just goes on and on until synesthesia effects wear off and the event can be processed correctly. SWIM believes that as a result of spice competing with these receptors, some of them are sent to the wrong place, possibly damaged, or perhaps it can alter them even further?

This type of thing has actually happened to a bunch of people, it's terrible and SWIM can sympathize but at the same time SWIM feels entirely relieved. You really do feel like your mind is shattered. It's like putting two mirrors in front of each other, or a microphone to its speaker, except with your senses and thoughts. Even if it would have been something simple like "I'm going to go to the grocery store and buy eggs", it would have been completely terrifying. It took a while but SWIM experienced full ego death, SWIM was gone, completely. It must have been the only way to stop this loop. Before SWIM came back, he was nothing, he was absolutely nothing. He heard his wife, and it was comforting, that's all he knew. He went from nothing, to a feeling of comfort and an audio sensation. Then her face came from the blackness, nothing but her face, and SWIM shouted her name and burst back into existence. His thought was "This is life! This face is life!" and he had a name to associate with this, he was flooded with feelings of love, butterflies in your stomach even. It was falling in love again, it really was. He slowly regained his senses and memories, it took a long time before he could actually physically feel again. Death then rebirth. He wasn't ready for ego death, and especially wasn't ready for the loop. SWIM will leave the space walks to the professionals.

I believe, the 'feedback' is to create a sense of continuïty in time. The brain creates pulses of consciousness instead of it being one continuüm, so this looping, i think, melts all these flashes togheter, connects the present with the past.
I believe serotonin represses in what's being looped, all that's of no immediate relevance in relation to direct sensory input, and that it amplifies all that's relevant, by filtering out everything that's too dissimilar with the sensory-input.
When DMT or another substance, temporarilly represses all serotonergic activity, then the filter vanishes and all that's being looped, even the very idiosyncratic responses and hidden sub-conscious reflexes that normally stay sub-conscious, continues being looped and there's no end to the looping effect anymore.

That's kind of what I feel when I'm not breaking through. When I'm still in my ego.

But a real breakthrough for me is something else. It's Hyperspace and everything can happen That does not feel like a malfunctioning brain. That feels like superfunctioning brain Hyperfunctioning to be exact

Try not to take it too seriously. The looping is going to end. All things come to and end, and then loop back around again

Even the universe comes to an end and then is reborn again in a grand scale creation loop. Everything is a bunch of loops. The sun comes up, it goes down, comes up again, goes down again, loops are all over the place. The whole universe is made up of looping molecules. The earth spins around the sun in a loop, over and over. Life would not be life without endless looping.

Now when you experience mental, visual, audio and emotional looping within your brain, it can be a little freaky at first. People are not used to their thoughts looping like that. Just relax and think of it as if its music with a nice rhythm. Just experience it and think “fascinating” as if you’re Spock from Star Trek. That’s how SWIM copes with it. He thinks “this is really weird, but also fascinating. I’m enjoying the show.” Just remember that it’s going to end, no matter how serious the looping is, and no matter how strong the sense of deja vu might be...might be…might be…might be…might be…might bee…mighty bee…what the! What the! What the! What the! …. Sorry about that

Music is a bunch of sound loops played over and over at different frequencies and human beings really like it. The looping experienced from psychedelics is indeed the brain malfunctioning like you’re stating above. 5-MeO-DMT can do that far more than DMT can. It’s ability to cross-wire the brain is well documented. LSD can also do this, but it’s not as frequent.

If you want a visionary experience without those types of mental effects, the only one I know of is 5-HO-DMT (bufotenine). It’s almost completely void of mental effects. I think it’s the safest hallucinogen psychologically.

SWIM watched his brother go through strong looping from LSD before. It happened within 1 second, but his brother experienced the looping as if it lasted for many minutes. I watched as it happened, he closed his eyes for about 1 second and then opened them with an odd look on his face and then told me he was gone for many minutes hearing things over and over in endless loops. He was a little freaked out about it. He takes massive amounts of LSD and only had that happen once (could have been an LSD substitute though and not real LSD).

The looping effect can be really nice if you’re playing music. It can help you get into the rhythm of things. SWIM plays keyboard, guitar, flute, sings, and when he’s making music and the looping effect kicks in, he can get really lost in the music. It’s a fantastic experience if you go with it.

5-MeO-DMT causes looping quite a bit. SWIM was worried the last time it happened because his mind started malfunctioning from the 5-MeO-DMT after the looping got too intense and everything became experienced as squares and lines. Even today, thinking about that, SWIM still can’t make sense of it. SWIM feels ok though. He doesn’t feel that there was any lasting damage of any kind. I believe it is just sensory reverberation and that it doesn’t actually cause any damage to the brain….the brain….the brain…the brain…well, at least I hope not. If it does, them SWIM’s brain suffered some damage.

As far as I know, the looping effect is a known effect that was first reported by early LSD users and it doesn’t indicate mental toxicity of any kind.

The looping effect is not dose related. SWIM has had really strong 5-MeO-DMT trips where no looping was experienced; and then weak 5-MeO-DMT trips where strong looping was experienced. So don’t expect that the next time you take DMT that you’ll experience looping again. Chances are you won’t. It’s an infrequent phenomenon for most users.

DMT, 5-MeO-DMT, and all the rest basically cause your brain to malfunction. Alcohol does to. All drugs that effect the brain are causing it to malfunction. A normal functioning brain will not experience reality as a bunch of squares and lines. Only a brain malfunctioning from 5-MeO-DMT can experience such nonsense as that.

Hallucinogens basically cause the visual centers in the brain to malfunction. When your visual cortex is robbed of valid input data from the optical nerves, it starts making up imaginary data to fill in the gaps. When all of your visual data is missing, you have a “break through” experience. The visual cortex doesn’t shut off, it continues processing visual data, even in its absence. This is exactly what produces dreams. This happens every night when we sleep. Our eyes are closed, so no visual data enters the optical nerves, and yet the visual cortex gets stimulated during REM sleep and then processes non existent visual data. Some people believe that it is processing visual data that is from another dimension. And that is one interpretation of what “hyperspace” actually is.

Before I get too scientific, I want to remind you that SWIM SAW GOD on ayahuasca and it was real as real can be. GOD told SWIM things about the future that were impossible for anyone to know and all of the things GOD said would happen did actually happen. Makes you wonder. Is it the brain malfunctioning, is it superfunctioning, or is something else altogether happening...Hmmmmmmm. Fascinating.

I think when you experience your thoughts being liquid or square, it's just some ascociation your brain makes. When the brain is fed with stimuli many things happen at the same time and it follows a stream of ascociations that becomes like a river with many branches that are split of from the mainstream. But that's normally filtered out. If it's being looped, then something else happens. Then each flash of consciousness get's the not filtered-out ascociations along with the sensory data as input again. So it then no longer feels as just a thought, but as a thought that's very familiar, something that you remember. The brain cannot tell the difference then between memories that you have had for almost your entire life, or this 'newly remembered' thoughts. And when this flash of consiousness is being looped then, then the feeling of familiarity is being looped with it, so then you experience a 'metaphor' like a square or liquid as something that's always been there, closely linked with your thoughts and feelings. And the more it's being looped, the stronger it gets because the data-processing that causes a feeling of familiarity is also being looped, so it becomes more and more familiar until finaly a thought or feeling or even the world or yourself, becomes totally liquid/square itself.
But still i think looping is something that is an essential part of our daily functioning, but it's normally just 'dempened' and 'filtered' by the brain. And when you take psychedelics the filter falls away. People suffering from obsessive compulsive dissorder seem to be in a loop for their entire life and they have, just like people on psychedelic tryptamines temporarily have, a serotonin shortage. Also, SSRI's can make these people 'normal'again. So supressing serotonin definately seems to be responsible for the loop-effect.

Drainlife20,

I personally don't think you are a fool, but I really don't know you. I do know that time/thought loops happen to me when I don't let go 100% Fighting the breakthrough can be very physically uncomfortable, so if possible, just let go. Also you might try using only enough for a solid breakthough... I have found that my most uncomfortable experiences were on high doses (+80mgs).

Gosvami, Why the hostility towards 69Ron and Drainlife20?

I'm not sure about an increase in serotonin, but I know that research has found that frequent ayahuasca use increases the amount of receptor sites.