First of all, thanks Gilbran for posting this tech, much appreciated.

I'm in the middle of completing the process and am finding that the time it takes for the precipitates to completely fall out and separate is more in the region of a few days rather than a couple of hours.

After waiting 4 or 5 hours for them to settle I was still left with a very gloopy precipitate that was almost impossible not to suck up when doing separation of the liquids. After having left the soup alone for several days, I'm now getting full precipitation where the precipitates look like a properly solid layer (as shown in the pics) rather than a gloopy mess.

I think patience is the key here with this particular tek.

I would also like to thank Gibran2. After my first, failed attempt at this a couple of years ago, I finally tried again with what I consider to be success. I had 64 grams of shredded yellow vine that a friend gave me a couple of years ago. I have been doing, nearly daily, deep work with spice after a couple of years off. The learning and healing have been so profound that I decided it was time to work with the vine, or I was told to. Either way. I took my time and followed the instructions. It is a well written tek. My only question was if I should add more fumaric acid after each boil. I did, but decreased by half each time. When I based and the precip started to fall out, I was so excited. Out of 64g of shredded vine I got about 400mg of very light tan powder. Low yield due to age of vine or beginner technique? I was very happy with the yield. I'm working toward pharma and then Aya, but for now 30mg sublingual with small amounts of vaped spice is just what I need. Thanks again. I love you Gibran2.

My healing: I was in a car accident in July. Neck and back injuries. After initial recovery using physical therapy, pain and problems returned. MRI revealed 6 bulging discs in neck, 5 in lower back. My doctor told me I had to go to pain management. Not a good thing for an ex-heroin addict. I finally relented. I always like getting pills even when I'm not in pain, but the pain has been debilitating. Couldn't wait to cash in the script. I don't go looking on the street anymore. Too much work for no payoff.
Took my first LSD in 25 years 2 weeks ago. Had a great time despite the added pain from shoveling snow. Felt the spice calling the next day.
Next day, massive breakthrough with birth/death/everything simultaneously.
Next day, big LOVE breakthrough. Became GOD.... or remembered that we are all god, as is everything. Interesting for an atheist, I guess.
Then rue/spice. Appointment with Lupita who worked on my back. Rue entity worked on my neck. First entity I ever had stand behind me. Christian archetypes. I didn't reject them, just let them be what they are.
Told to take a break, but that I wouldn't because I'm a silly monkey. I didn't. Got a VERY stern warning. Took a fucking break

Called back.
Vine extract/ vaped spice. More magic. Dimming visuals, but deeper spiritual meaning/connection/healing. Revisiting childhood traumas, current turmoils.
I continued this difficult, but rewarding work over a period of days.
I am walking around, light as a feather. All people are smiling at me and approaching me. More than usual. Got pulled over by a cop who seemed baffled as to why he pulled me over, especially since he picked me out of a cluster of crazily speeding cars. He finally came up with a reason. Actually thrust an "aha!" finger into the air. Warning for no front tag. I think he really just wanted to say hi. He was so happy to see me.
I am super tuned in. People are telling me that I'm psychic. Music flowing from me. Loss of all existential fear. Deep love for EVERYTHING. Accidentally stopped smoking cigarettes. Didn't notice for over a day.

The pain in my back and neck is completely gone.
Years of deep depression and anxiety: GONE. Not alleviated. Gone.

Got my pain med refill prescription at epidural shot appointment I didn't feel that I needed, but was told in hyperspace, I should do anyway. Had the paper in hand. Didn't care. That's a big deal for me. Night before refill day I started to worry that I would go back to the same old cycle.
Vine extract and spice: Calm message: "refill. try your drugs. don't be afraid. you won't like them anymore."
Weeping in gratitude. I finally have a chance to be emancipated from the slow boring slavery of half assed opiate addiction.
Next day: Refill. Usually I don't make it out of the pharmacy parking lot without taking a few. Got home and my wife remarked that I hadn't opened the bag. Later, decided to try 40mg of oxycodone. A good amount for me, that should have elicited a nice buzz. Barely anything... except... my pain started coming back. Felt kind of shitty. Wanted to smoke. I did, but hated it. Gave the pills away to someone who needed them. This is SO huge for me. Thank you.

In other words: Try this extraction. It's easy. It's fun. It can be educational on many levels. Do the work. Forget buying extracts. The work is all part of the healing/learning process.
Buying more vine and rue. Feeling less desire for the spice for now and hope to do deeper work with harmalas.

Aya is on her way. I can feel her coming.

I love you all.

Further update, finished process has produced next to nothing :-( Think my source must be off as I followed the tek very closely.

I think I might re try with Syrian Rue seeds.

My last attempt with powered Caapi seemed to have the same problem. I ended up with nothing. However, my first attempt was with just leaf and ended up with a small yield, but at least it extracted something.

I've been looking for this post that Spiced referenced, but I can't find anything. Does anybody know what this is, I'm very curious now. I'm going to try again with some leaf, but I want to understand what I did wrong with the powder.

Is it possible to over boil it when reducing? I feel like I may have made it too hot and possibly "burned" the harmalas. Is this possible?

Or is it possible to over-basify the mixture?




Thanks for the wonderful description of experience with this. I couldn't agree more with the above line!


And thanks to gibran2 for the excellent instructions with beautiful pictures.


MoonMoon

So I think I've made a mistake. Made the tea, reduced everything and set aside for a few minutes. Didn't allow to cool down fully before adding base. No clouding like normal, so added more base. Some drops of cooler tea in base immediately went white.

I'm worried that I've wasted. ~300g of caapi. Is there any way to reverse and reprecipitate, or has the warm tea destroyed my freebase?

Kicking myself for lacking patience.

So I got some precip, but on cleaning it up, it looks all needly, as if it was from a manske, which I haven't done. This has been a weird extraction.

Could it be temperature related, or the type of vine? The strain is called Ourhinous.

Had a go at this for the first time. The last stage seems to be a problem, up until that point everything looks the same as the pics.

The problem is when I try to remove the clear liquid and leave behind the freebase precipitate I end up sucking up all the precipitate with the glass syringe. There just seems no way to get a clean separation, I understand some will get sucked up but it's like I can't get enough of the liquid out to make this work.

As soon as I get most of the liquid out the last bit is impossible without just sucking up all the precip as well. I've tried leaving some water behind but the ph stays at 12 after multiple rinses.

I'm now trying to filter all the liquid through a funnel with cotton balls to get the water out and leave the precip behind.

Can someone shed some light on how they siphoned off the liquid at the end?

I've never siphoned off the liquid with my Rue or Caapi extractions, i've always just filtered it through a coffee filter which collects the precipitated freebased extract very well, none goes through the filter and the water drains through effortlessly especially with the cleaner precipitations.

Thanks ShamenStamen! worked a treat.

Also any reason that NaOH is used and not sodium carbonate? Surely the latter would be safer and require less rinsing after

I've used sodium carbonate for a similar extraction from rue without issue. I personally find it more suitable than lye which sometimes produces a strange cloud. I just use a small amount of concentrated sodium carbonate solution added drop-wise until precipitation begins and no more milkiness appears.

Thank You Orion!

glad to see the same thing that ive effectively applied to syrian rue will also work for caapi. still waiting to get my hands on some soul vine.

Damn i think i made a mistake Can a good soul help me to fix it ?
I wanted to see the difference in yield beetween a first quick soft boil, and the next boils

Process :
1) 1000g of caapi vine is boiled in 10L water for 1h (with a splash of vinegar), and then rest for the whole night with a big blanket to keep the heat. It has not be reduced.
The brew is decanted 24h, then filtered (cotton then coffee filter).
I added 1L of a 10%NAOH solution to the 10L brew. PH rise to 12.2. Nothing happened. No change of color, no precipitation.

Hypothesis : I guess it's too diluted and freebase is slightly soluble? But no reaction at all, it's a bit strange?!

Solution i'm thinking of :
Reduce the brew. But first, i should re-acidify ? is that a problem ? Can we acidify / Basify again and again ? I have a blury memory of PH science....

thanks!!!

Trying a manske on some vine for my first time right now, started out by using 100g for slightly over 1 liter of solution but after letting the solution fully chill the yield was only a small fraction by comparison to the amount of freebase alkaloids I saw get dissolved into the solution prior to the manske. Decided to retry heating/dissolving an additional 50g of sea salt into the solution and re-cooling it down to see if more precipitate is formed.

Is manske the only way to turn freebase harmalas into hcl?

If that's 100g of vine, your volume for the manske needs to be closer to 20ml. You're using 50 times too much water.

Another way to convert harmalas into HCl salts is by salting the freebase with HCl.

It was 1000g of vine and 100g salt, stepped it up with an additional 50g of salt and got some more yield probably will do one more using another additional 50g salt and then after that see what needs to be done.

What I got so far does look nice and shardy!

Also I would gladly just salt the base alkies with HCL but since I am not so experienced in harmalas yet I didnt know how to approach such a procedure, same as anything else I assume?

(Dissolve freebase alks in a diluted solution of HCL in distilled water, shake, filter, evap???????)

So I ended up adding a total of 200g of sea salt to my manske and for some reason the yield was much less than what I thought it would be, from an entire 1000g of vine I only got 1g of semi-pure HCL haramal(s). Some how before I did the manske though I suspected it was much more than 1g of freebase alks but admittedly I didnt weigh it before I transferred it to the next stage.

Im purifying the semi-pure 1g now in order to go from brown xtals to hopefully white/golden xtals. Using dilute hcl this time instead of sea salt, also sodium carbonate as the salt instead of sodium hydroxide.

Hope for some good results.

I think that should work, although I'm not sure how you would tell whether your alks have converted or not, because both the freebase and the hydrochlorides are solids. You'd have to get your numbers right.

I've never done it, but I have accidentally converted fb to HCl's while attempting to do a zinc reduction. I dissolved my fb in an acetic acid solution and added HCl to bring the pH down. I added more HCl than I should have and it precipitated as hydrochlorides.

So to repeat my inadvertent scenario purposefully, you would dissolve your fb in vinegar first, and then put sufficient HCl in it. The HCl should displace the acetate ion just like it does in Manske, without contaminating your product with salt. Then you would filter and dry it (in a well ventilated space) to remove the water, acetic acid and excess HCl.

Please be aware HCl is potentially dangerous, so gloves and protective eyewear are essential; also if dealing with high HCl concentrations, do it in a plastic container and not a glass one. Although I've gone below pH 1 in a glass without any apparent damage.

Maybe someone else can chime in on this, or the simple procedure of salting the fb with dilute HCl directly?

I took my gram of crude xtals from the manske, redissolved it in diluted AA, reprecipitated via sodium carbonate, and took my freebase and dissolved it in a distilled water with 12 drops of diluted hcl. It all seemed to dissolve into a beautiful red solution which I have air drying now.

Can the product be washed with acetone or the like to purify it? Or should it be good to go?

The freebase I preciped with the sodium carbonate looked much purer the second time around so I think it might be finally done once the hcl solution dries.